15' to 15.5" top-of-the-line poly yaks?

-- Last Updated: Nov-04-07 8:53 PM EST --

Been looking at the Valley Avocet Enthusiast RM as a possible next kayak for myself. I have also been considering the P&H Capella RM 160 and the Riot Brittany.

I like the fact that the Avocet is 16' long and all indications point toward it being a great all-around boat that is very responsive.

Besides the 15'8" CD Squamish, any other poly boats in the 15' to 15.5" range I should take a look at?

ETA:
I'm 5'9" 150lbs
Athletic build

I've had these boats:
Riot Atlantis rec (intro to kayaking)
CD Squamish (intro to longer/intermediate boats)
CD Solstice GTS HV glass (intro to sea kayaks)

Current fleet down to one:
Riot Enduro EXP (do-it-all poly kayak)

The Atlantis was my intro to kayaking. Moved to the Squamish and liked it, but I wanted to move to a glass boat...so I got the Solstice. Nice boat but was too long and I worried about it too much. I'm mainly interested in local lakes, ponds, rivers, streams, creeks, and will rarely put a boat in salt water. I discovered photography again and like to sight-see, enjoy days with friends on the water, and do some day-camping. Looking forward to doing some overnight excursions, too.

I really like the Riot Enduro EXP because it was a nice compromise. It's a 13ft poly with dual minicell sealed bulkheads which can fit lots of gear. Turns VERY quickly and I can really get it moving fairly easily. Since it's a poly kayak, I don't have to worry so much putting it in my local lakes/creeks and hitting things, dragging it around, hitting rocks, etc.

When I go to the larger lakes in my area, I'd like a bit longer boat so that it seems I've got something under me. The 13ft seems dwarfed in large bodies of water, and rightly so.

I'd like a bit more length but still have a boat that can handle the bumps and bruises of the creeks, can handle larger bodies of water, can handle some gear for day-camping or overnight stays, can get moving when I want it to, and is maneuverable, playful, responsive to turning easily, etc.

basic info
What’s your height/weight?



What other kayaks have you paddled, and what did you like/dislike about them?



What knd of paddling are you planning to do with the new boat?

Avocet RM or …
I own and Avocet RM and read your post. The Avocet is a good play boat, but not the fastest for long day paddles and there is not much room for camping gear if you like to camp. I would look at the Tempest 165. It’s one of my favorite boats that I don’t own. It’s a great all around boat that jumped right to mind when I read your post. I would also look at the Necky Chatham 16 and possibly the Chatham 17. The Necky Chathams use Valley hatches.

~wetzool

what are you to use the boat for?
long distance workouts? paddle camping? several things at once?



I’ve never paddled a Solstice but always loved its looks-you mentioned you had fear about it?

I think Wendy went around Newfoundland in one or one of the CD boats, so explain the fear comment please.



The tempest 165 is a great all around boat, we’ve got 2 of them…but i would never say its fast nor would i choose it first for paddle camping-not that you can’t though-I can paddle camp out of a Kestrel 120 :slight_smile: If/when I get to do 4star training it will be in either the Tempest or the Q-boat…the Q is more maneuverable but the Tempest allows a true complete layback on the back deck.


I agree with Wetzool.

– Last Updated: Nov-04-07 11:45 PM EST –

"The Avocet is a good play boat, but not the fastest for long day paddles and there is not much room for camping gear if you like to camp."-wetzool.

I prefer, for an overall boat, the Valley Nordkapp RM; see my Pnet review please. I own it, and the Avocet RM (which I also reviewed on Pnet)

"I'd like a bit more length but still have a boat that can handle the bumps and bruises of the creeks, can handle larger bodies of water, can handle some gear for day-camping or overnight stays, can get moving when I want it to, and is maneuverable, playful, responsive to turning easily, etc."--original poster.

I bought a nearly 15 foot Prijon Calabria, and found it to me in that middle length zone that is like ano man's land for kayaks" not quite a sea kayak, not really a small rec kayak "creeker", and really, not good at much of anything. Thus, based on my experience, I'd shy away from the middle zone, the 15-15.5 footers. Get a 12-13 footer and a 17+ footer and enjoy all types of water.

The only thing the Nordkapp RM does not do well is the creeks, and for that, you need another, smaller boat. Even the Avocet RM is not great for "creeks".


The issue with the Tempest 165 is the inferior plastic to Valley.

G'luck, original poster.

LOA Vs LWL
Don’t focus solely on overall length. Many Brit type boats have waterline lengths significantly shorter than their length overall! I like the Avocet and would easily do a two week trip in one! The 16’s always get the “slow” label…BUT, they cruise along up to 4 knots just fine, which is a decent pace, and they are a heck of a lot of fun when the going gets fun. The net result is minimal. I did as many 40+ knot days in a Romany as I ever did in a Nordkapp.



The longer hulls do allow you to sprint faster if you have the strength and the shorter boats do hit a wall, but it’s a compromise I for one will make in order to have a better rock garden, surf, big sea boat.



Enjoy your search.

To clarify…
From my original post:

“I’m mainly interested in local lakes, ponds, rivers, streams, creeks, and will rarely put a boat in salt water. I discovered photography again and like to sight-see, enjoy days with friends on the water, and do some day-camping. Looking forward to doing some overnight excursions, too.”



Bottom line: I’d like another do-it-all boat with a bit more length.



To be quite honest, I think the Solstice was just a bit more boat than I needed for what I like to do.



It’s also funny that each of you have mentioned the exact boats on my short list!



WS Tempest 165

Riot Brittany

Necky Chatham 16

P&H Capella RM 160

Valley Avocet RM



I’ve heard good things about all of them.



It appears as if the Tempest is for smaller paddlers, like myself, but there may or may not be quality issues with the hatches?



I’ve owned 2 other Riot kayaks. My Enduro has been a stellar boat. Maybe the Brittany will make me happy, as well, and fill a niche.



The Necky is just downright beautiful to look at and plain sexy in the water!



The Avocet is highly praised for its comfy seat (okay…who cares about a comfy seat anyway!) and the plastic welded bulkheads. Seems to be the shortest on my list. I like that.



The Capella also gets high praise.

I might also add…
…that when I went to a local pro kayak shop in town last year, they took the time to listen to me and fit me into a kayak that would best suit my needs.



This shop deals with CD and Necky products, among others…and they fit me into the CD Squamish.



Should I reconsider that one, as well?

The Brittany is 16’6"
and I thought you said you wanted something 15’ to 15.5’.



Have you considered the Riot Evasion 15.5? Sounds like you would fit in it. I have that boat and love it (and I’ve owned quite a few boats).



If you like the P&H’s, how about the Orca 16 (which is actually about 15.5)? I’ve paddled it at a demo event and liked it. Might not be in production now as I see they have removed it from their website.



The Prijon Motion might be another one to consider.



Good luck.

Length or performance
On a reread of this thread, I am not sure that your problem with the Solstice was its length. I suspect that it was its stiffness to which you responded negatively for your own use, maybe its volume was a bit much as well. So - I think that your presentation tends to take the discussion away from boats a few inches longer, like 16’ or so, that are the right boats for what you need.



As someone above said, rocker and waterline can be much more important than raw boat length.


– Last Updated: Nov-05-07 9:41 AM EST –

donna4955 - Yes, the other boats on my interest list are 16' and above. My question was are there others, in the same league as those on my list, that are 15' to 15.5"? I know that seemed confusing,but I don't want to overlook any boats and welcome your suggestions. I will look into those immediately. Thanks!

celia - I think you've put it in a better way. Maybe it was the stiffness and sheer volume of the Solstice that surpassed my need/use for it in my environment.

cooldoctor1 - This is sage advice and I think I need to really pay attention to what you said: "I bought a nearly 15 foot Prijon Calabria, and found it to me in that middle length zone that is like ano man's land for kayaks" not quite a sea kayak, not really a small rec kayak "creeker", and really, not good at much of anything. Thus, based on my experience, I'd shy away from the middle zone, the 15-15.5 footers. Get a 12-13 footer and a 17+ footer and enjoy all types of water."

salty - You sort of mimic what cooldoctor1 has said when you wrote: "Don't focus solely on overall length. Many Brit type boats have waterline lengths significantly shorter than their length overall!" I need to go back and do more research on some of the overall longer boats I had sort of crossed off my list and focus on the waterline length! Excellent!

Regarding the Avocet seat …
Be sure you try it for at least a 2 hour paddle and perhaps a half day or more. I have a 2004 with a very comfy foam seat. Friend has a 2006 and he could not stand to be in the boat for more than an hour. Eventually he removed the stock seat and replaced it with a foam seat. It’s better, but the boat still somewhat painful. He’s looking at removing the thigh braces next, but has talked about selling the boat as well. My point is that everyone is different. What works for me may not for you. Most people find the Valley seat quite comfortable, but often complain about Valley backbands. I love the Valley backband, so much so that I removed a Snapdragon to re-install the stock Valley backband. Go figure (but spend some time in each boat before you make a decision).

~wetzool

length
I don’t understand the desire for “length” as your criteria appear to be maneuverability and stability.

Likewise the contradictory statements that it’s primarily for flat water but also for open water(lakes) but also moving water(creeks).Left out of this is cost/weight. It’s not an insignificant factor to meet your other criteria.



“can handle larger bodies of water”



methinks efficiency will be important for any distance paddling, the Chatham 16 will be very stable with your weight but is not particularly efficient for paddling distances, the bow will be curling up a little wave at cruising speeds compared to the Avocet.

Anything that’s efficient in the shorter lengths will tend to be tippier but at your weight that shouldn’t be a problem.



The Solstice is way too big for day paddling/high winds and stiff tracking for the other conditions you describe (that was my first glass kayak.



Seems to me you are looking for a do-all kayak yet wanting things a do-all kayak may not excell at.



What’s wrong with the avocet?



Eddyline 16’ Nighthawk is another choice. I’d nix the Chatham 16.


Friend has a 2006 and he could not stand to be in the boat for more than an hour.–wetzool.



Again, I agree with wetzool. My 2006 Avocet RM is like that.


NDK Romany in RM?
Is this a rumor or future production planned? A contender?

One has been seen
Literally. In some thread on this board someone said they had seen a - note the singular - RM Romany in the UK.



I believe it is one of the other major manufacturers, like Valley? that will be actually making the boats. But things like a date for actually getting them off the line and into a container for shipment? I think that is unknown.

Alanbe- as long as you are up to
the 16.5’ range, 17’ would not be much of a stretch. I am EXACTLY your height and weight and enjoy the Valley Aquanaut LV. It is very versatile.



http://www.valleyseakayaks.com/aquanautlvpoly.htm


LeeG - sorry to be so vague and paint a picture with large brush strokes. I’m still a newbie with only 2 seasons under my belt in a variety of different crafts. I’m very green at all this.



I was specifically looking for something a little longer than my 13ft Enduro to fill a niche, hence the “length” aspect of my original post.



I may not be able to get a do-it-all boat, like you’ve suggested, so that’s why I’m depending on user input from more experienced paddlers and those who have been-there/done-that to really help guide me in the right direction so that I don’t make a purchasing mistake.



Nothing wrong with the Avocet at all. I’ve been keeping a firm eye on it and like what I see/read about it.





bruce - I’d like to hear more about your experiences with the Aquanaut, if you don’t mind. If we share the same build, I’m anxious to hear about its pros and cons as seen through your eyes.

Aquanaut RM
If that’s the direction you go, and you’re in the mid-Hudson valley area at some point, and you like purple, I know of an very lightly used Aquanaut RM looking for a home. Drop me a line and I’ll send you the owners contact info.



See you on the water,

Marshall

The River Connection, Inc.

Hyde Park, NY

www.the-river-connection.com

Alanbe- see below for my review of the

– Last Updated: Nov-05-07 3:46 PM EST –

Aquanaut roto LV as you requested. Now that I've paddled it many hundreds of miles for two years, I enjoy it much more than when I reviewed it. I'm using my wife's garden kneeling pad for a backband (when I use a backing at all).

Submitted by: bruce
08-24-2006
I purchased my plastic low volume Aquanaut in April 2006. I have used it often in various conditions. In general, the pros far outweigh the cons. I am 5'9" and 150 lbs. and have been paddling for 2.5 years.

Pros:
It is extremely maneuverable. It turns very easily with a slight lean. It is suitable for both big water and narrow rivers. Both primary and secondary stability are excellent. It is very quick and gets up to speed very rapidly. The plastic is very firm (triple-layer) and the boat is well-constructed and thought out (deck rigging, hatches, etc.). It is reasonably well-balanced when carried (although I believe it weighs more than the catalogue listed weight of 55 lbs.) It excels in waves- I have used it in waves up to 3'-4'. The hatch covers are outstanding and the bulkheads are solid. The skeg is easy to use although I choose not to use it much.

Cons:
Although Valley claims they have improved the backband, I found the backband uncomfortable and the straps and velcro shift when I paddle. I will change it out for a new backband this year. I found the thigh pads uncomfortable and restrictive (even though they are adjustable) and could not find a suitable position. This may just be my build but I removed the thigh pads.

One of the positives may also be a negative. The boat is very sensitive to even the slightest of movements or wind so at times I have to make small adjustments to keep the boat tracking straight. The dealer indicated that you have to actively work a Brit boat which is the tradeoff for maneuverability and stability. Incidentally, the tracking seems much better in textured than in flat water. I'd much rather have a highly maneuverable boat than one that always tracks dead straight but is difficult to turn except with an extreme lean.

All things considered, I am very pleased with the performance of the Aquanaut and purchased it realizing that I could make the sundry comfort modifications.
Rating: 8 of 10