absolutely the wrong size

-- Last Updated: Nov-28-06 6:25 AM EST --

Just goes to show you how misleading some of the comments from the manufacturers websites can be and how it may prevent people from trying out boats that would in fact be perfect for them.
Case in point: I am 6 ft and fluctuate between 195 and 200lbs. According to wildy, i am a classic fit for the Tempest 170. In fact I bought one and had it for a year. After about two months it always felt "big" on me.
Well I finally tried out a tempest 165 and am a perfect fit. good contact all around, low enough back deck for layback rolls, etc etc.
Just a suggestion that regardless of what manufacturers say, and bearing in mind that they are averages, anyone in the market for a new boat should try everything out there, including smaller/low volume boats.


We have been saying on this forum
ever since it’s inception.




Good morning from SC Jack.
water at 59 and air at 48…did an 8 mile paddle yesterday and woke up lazy today. If I procrastinate another 10 minutes I won’t have time before going to work at 11.


no, you got it backwards JackL
I think it’s


but it’s easy to see the source of the confusion

Morning Bo.

In “Fairness…”

– Last Updated: Nov-28-06 7:18 AM EST –

when you got that boat, I remember you saying you were bigger. Also, you were starting out. So, the combination made that boat then the "absolute" perfect one for you. Now, things have change -- weight and skill wise -- so you like a tighter, lower volume boat. That's normal but don't put that on the manufacturer. Really is not that fair.

What is not fair is when manufacturers produce boats supposedly "low volume" for "smaller" paddlers. And, by "smaller", they mean folks 160 lbs and up. Friggin' middleweights by boxing standard!


Marketing v Others
At the size of an average female this is such a common experience… the manufacturer’s site suggests the boat can work for you, but go to a paddle fest where you get the folks on the ground and the story is quite different. Two reasons that I see. First, the web site is often overseen by the marketing folks who want to invite in as many buyers as possible, and the people on the ground are the ones that are the paddlers and want to see people in boats that really work. Second, the exec corporate layer in many of these companies aren’t even thinking about the boat being right for someone to go out and do stuff like rolling or sufing or more advanced work. They are thinking about people going out and paddling around a nice lake or a calm ocean bay and staying pretty much upright the whole time.

So the Tempest 170 probably is a good fit for someone your size, just not you specifically because of how you are pushing your skills. For what you want to do, lower volume makes that all appreciably easier.

Greenland style paddlers don’t count…
Paul, you ARE a good fit for the Tempest 170 in regards to all purpose use. With that said, once you spend any time in the LV greenland style boats, your perception of what volumes you need and want change fairly dramatically.

Of course I’ve slowly been gravitating back to the larger boats relative to my size (Silhouette and Nordkapp LV) so who knows. :slight_smile:

Had to smile at the Greenland style paddlers comment. I felt the Tempest 170 was way too big prior to becoming interested in Greenland style paddling, or going lower volume for rolling etc.

All I am trying to say is that people should not be dissuaded from trying out smaller volume boats than what manufacturers or reviews state as being optimum. Lets face it…how many have bought a boat because it woudl be good for “camping” and have never really camped out of it?


People of the same weight come in different sizes and shapes :slight_smile: Some of us like to cut 10 or 20 pounds from our size, so maybe the suggested weight limits are playing it safe. As a beginner, I’ve been on coastal paddles in boats that were theoretically both too small and too big for me and both felt and performed just fine. Size wise, it proably matters how much of your weight in in the boat as opposed to over the boat :slight_smile:

come visit me
and we can go kayak ‘camping’ where you’ll ‘probably’ feel more comfy in a T-170. not that you can’t ‘do’ the 165 it’s just nice to have a little extra room.

can you say ‘pineapple upside down cake’ ??


steve (who has a T-180 for camping)

Misleading? Misreading?
Of course the marketing blurbs and intended use specs can’t account for your specific uses/preferences - you are too unique! :wink:

I don’t really see them as misleading - just less than useful/predictive for me specifically. Even if I did find them misleading it would only be an issue if I felt I needed or wanted to be lead! I’ve always been a terrible follower.

To me it looks like you just moved from a general purpose size to a more playful size that fits your less general day paddling/rolling uses better.

Besides, you have a fleet. You can have something smaller for play/day use and others for camping/whatever. If you had to pare that down to just ONE kayak for everything (a horrid stretch of the imagination I know) - then what? Would a T165 be that all purpose kayak? Something a just a little bigger maybe? How far off would manufacturer recommendations really be then?

Hmmm,… If you hadn’t been “mislead” and had bought a 165 instead of a 170 in the beginning, what would you be buying now?

Hey, now that you’ve found you like kayaks rated for smaller folks, why haven’t you sold the OI and Legend and moved to a Silhouette yet? Foster handling (less, but still some), OI speed or better), good roller, room if you pack efficiently…

On the “small” kayak front I’d been wanting to try a Force 3 as I find the 4 to be nice but huge up front. Just no way I can’t get my thighs under the braces. Too low/aft. If they’d do an ocean cockpit I could slide into it could be sweet for play and all those stroke/maneuvering thingies you have to do for BCU…

PS - When are you going to install heaters and salt pumps in that pond so I can visit? :slight_smile:

In the first month of paddling
it’s 90 percent boat and 10 percent paddler.

In the first year of paddling it’s 90 percent paddler and 10 percent boat.

Photography:why do cameras routinely
overexpose. Because an overexposed picture is a better result than an underexposed one.

Same thing for a too big kayak vs a too small one.

You have travelled a pretty unique path for a US paddler. Quick progression, love of greenland style. This path has lead you to desire lower volume.

got a portable oyster roaster that will fit in the back hatch?


We Can Talk
I paddled a 170 for a good while. Got in a rented 165 and ordered one the next day.

you can pull detail out of an underexposed shot while an overexposed shot is mostly unsalvageable.


well now…
it’s waaaayyyy easier to smoke’m @ home. they go from ocean/bay to smoker in 1 hr. and are ohhhh soooo good!

now I have been known to bring a grill for the fire and a bunch of oys in the shell. yummmy.

livin’ off’n the land!


just sent you an e-mail
response about that other matter


WE ar e talking marketing stratedy
few are artists and actually now that I am at home and can think better, an analogy to overdevelopment in consumer film labs would be more apt.