A great article for discussion
““It’s the Internet and people will
jump all over you for anything””
I’ve been guilty of being harsh at times,
my bad, I’ll admit to it.
Perhaps we can all learn a thing a two from that article.
A great article for discussion
Couple of things to start off
Many of us think and write in “sound bytes”. There might be a longer novel in there but forums tend to foster quick and hence sometimes incomplete answers. Most writers think, make notes compose a manuscript and edit keeping in mind tone and message. Then they may think on it a while…then submit it.
Most of us are not writers. What comes off our fingers is there and then we hit the send button. The texting language is taking over too.
The other thing that immediately comes to mind is that peoples opinions are formed on their own experiences. Its not a personal shortcoming to have those opinions nor is it a shortcoming to need to learn more. The party that criticized SOT’s had, no doubt, only seen them used by beginners. And hence formed the logical to them conclusion that those weren’t good boats for an expediton in rough waters.
I just was overly harsh with someone over a packing system that they use for all their trips. It may be that their trip experience is all in one type of country. They simply do not know that other environments that call for other packing methods exist.
And that is okay. Its ok not to know. Its ok to admit it…that’t the other thing. We tend to look at posts as Winning or Not Winning. In the real world does anyone care? I think we take ourselves way too seriously.
Maybe we should all just take a deep breath. Actually forums are pretty good when you compare them to on line newspaper comments.
Over a campfire the discussions are a lot more fun with a beverage, face to face with the visual body language.
Cyberspace is what it is
Very limited, and even a really good, careful writer can have a bad day in terms of what ended up on the page before hitting send. I sure have.
There are also good reasons to be a little skeptical when reading third hand reports about someone who is said to be an experienced kayaker. I’m not saying it was an issue in this story, at all. But we also regularly see news stories about paddlers who get into trouble and, in terms of sheer time sitting in a boat on that body of water, are experienced. And the story says they are. But they are not experienced in a way that informs good judgement about the risks of that paddling situation.
And of course many people get away with a lot on the water where things could have gone terribly wrong. But they didn’t, at least that time or the next or the one after. So who is right about how risky it really was? Short of having a big mess that highlights all the warts, it isn’t easy to tell.
Like above - good beer and a camp fire could solve a lot of the world’s ills.
Discussion is good and productive
Getting input from a variety of perspectives is a
generally healthy aspect of many posting boards.
Cognitive fallacies, analyzing confidence,
illusions of skill, and the psychology of humans.
Many items ingrained in our culture are quite bizarre.
Learning is indeed a lifelong activity and being
outdoors helps hone our thinking.
I thought I was wrong once,
but I was mistaken.
wappa wappa wappa
you know better!
Beer??? How declasse
Everyone knows that Stoli Pepper Vodka is the ONLY campfire beverage worth drinking ;-)
but I DO always know
Many distortions in the human mind are
difficult to eliminate and lead to
perceptual distortion, inaccurate judgment,
or illogical interpretation.
Human judgment is generally optimistic due
to overconfidence and insufficient information.
Risk is perhaps a major source of forecast error.
Attempting to maintain “an outside view” for the
planned action helps aid decision making.
That must have been why my wife
married me.Her Cognitive Balance wasn’t.
If I were to accept the comments I see on the net at face value,I would think most of the internet community is immature, bigoted, and unnecessarily profane.These seem to really come out when someone tries to do a You Tube review of a piece of equipment.
I appreciate Brent keeping p.net from going there.
Putting yourself into the Net
Try writing a kayaking column or a blog or two
-- then the real "gems" in society emerge from the web.
Just listening to talk radio every few weeks also reminds
me about society's ability to function (or not function)
another day on the net
I’m not sure what should be taken away from this. Probably nothing. It’s typical internet. Guy writes fake story, internet readers accept it as real and many think he is an idiot because he presented himself as one in the story. Some complimented him though. Go figure. Another writer blogs about it, deriding the commentators who by and large made good points I think, albeit a bit deridingly (like the blogger deriding them for it), and misspells deprecating in the process. Now someone comes along and points out a spelling or grammatical error in my post, or claims deridingly isn’t a word. Just another day on the net. Just more bloviating (ha! I’ve been waiting to use that).
the "real gems"
Yes, that’s where they flock. Blogs.
Welcome to the world of the intraweb. It’s sorta like Hell–you’ll get flamed a lot.
I find it more interesting that people get their feelings hurt rather than realizing anonymous people will sometimes (often) make harsh comments. Is what it is.
Ain’t that the truth!
Pst., I wrote the article so if you want to bash the person that wrote the “When the Kayak Community Goes Wrong” article, bash me.
>>>The other thing that immediately comes to mind is that peoples opinions are formed on their own experiences. Its not a personal shortcoming to have those opinions nor is it a shortcoming to need to learn more. The party that criticized SOT's had, no doubt, only seen them used by beginners. And hence formed the logical to them conclusion that those weren't good boats for an expediton in rough waters.
I agree that it's not a personal shortcoming to have opinions or having to learn more. But, the shortcoming in your example is that the writer didn't obviously understand that he lacked enough experience to make the judgment that he did. A logical conclusion based on incorrect assumptions is still incorrect. The argument you're making apologizes for falsities. You're essentially arguing that it's okay to be a jerk on the Internet as long as you didn't have all the knowledge (edit: and didn't know that you didn't have all the knowledge). I just don't agree with that.
Not sure why you are looking to be bashed? The community is often wrong. That said, many people have thin skin.
In reality it goes both ways–here on the intraweb it only goes one way…you get flamed. The internet is a place for people to be downright cruel sometimes but as long as users know this it isn’t a big deal. Nice article. Loser
You missed the point me thinks
The point wasn’t to bash the commenters on that specific article, but (1) to use the comments to point out what is generally wrong when commenting that way. (2) Try to figure out why it happens. And, (3) suggest a solution.
The take away is (3) the solution. There obviously is a problem that you sort of acknowledge (“It’s typical internet.”)and I just want the topic to be discussed and to have everyone try to come up with a solution, i.e. fix the problem.
My suggestion: “It’s simple: ask questions before repeating the mantra.”
If you have a different solution that would help fix the problem, I’d love to hear it.
I don’t think that anyone got their feelings hurt in this specific example. The point is, how do we fix the problem as a kayaking community?