Is OP OCD ? There are medications
that can help.
Is that stroke analysis or …
… psychoanalysis? -
Either way - irrelevant to my question.
On the other hand, if you have an opinion on the quality of the instruction in the linked video, I’d gladly read about it…
major flaw
I think one of the major flaws is that his pfd is sorta girly.
Also not enough beard.
And definitely you gotta want more cowbell.
In all seriousness, watching just the forward stroke part the thing that stuck out to me that others touched on was that exit was far too late. Thats basic stuff, exit at the hip.
You always need more cowbell
he has no confidence in his rudder syste
definitely see both sides
Just watching it without the intent to be critical, he gets some useful ideas across. I immediately recognize it as geared towards less experienced paddlers. From that perspective, he emphasizes torso rotation. I see the sideways paddling as being very useful overall as a blade angle control exercise vs. the ability to travel sideways alone. And he speaks about the importance of blade angle control. A few good things in there.
If I get critical, I hate to see people struggling to keep up, and trying to control direction with sweep strokes when they’re already paddling as fast as they know how. The faster you go, the less effective the sweep, and the more effective different rudder strokes. So for a beginner, I would emphasize the first half of a sweep stroke from an idle or slow moving moment as being effective. The faster you go, the more your bow is pinned, and the looser your stern, so if you can pull it off, focus on the back half of a sweep stroke to pull your stern towards the paddle blade. If it’s not effective, use the stern rudder. He doesn’t edge. He does extend his shoulder back demonstrating bringing the blade right up to the stern, while emphasizing the importance of getting it back there. I see this as a bad demonstration. You have to use strength and leverage to get the stern moving in the direction of the paddle face. You have leverage against falling away from the paddle in that moment, but none falling towards it. So if you mess up and fall off balance forward, you need to catch yourself with the back of that blade. So your quick transition has the pressure against that already overextended shoulder, pushing it towards a further extension. It would be very important to me to teach that you’re better off not extending the paddle all the way to the stern, than extending it there by extending your shoulder backwards. Get it there by twisting your hips around in the seat and rotating your torso, but make sure you keep your shoulder up front, because you will need it at full strength instantly should you lose your balance. So that I guess struck me as the most serious no-no in the video, as was pointed out by others.
OK Kocho, fair enough
I believe your intent is good. Maybe I’m just burned out with the constant analysis. I’ve heard it in one form or another for years as a mountain, ski, kayak guide etc. Tele skiers over anal-izing everything yet they still suck, shitty rollers who swim in surf analizing everything etc… I’ve heard intermediate paddlers analyzing world champions strokes too without knowing who they were looking at! Now I’m into motorcycle touring etc and it’s a whole new set of ego nonsense and judgement. But I notice the folk who are real pro riders don’t get into that…it’s the goobers once again. My guess is your just a mass analytical guy and didn’t mean to belittle a fellow paddler.
Yes but…
It’s not meant as an advanced stroke clinic. The guy probably doesn’t actually paddle exactly the way he is describing but I think he’s just trying to cover basics in a basic way. I agree he probably goes too far back. Shouldn’t we cut a little slack here. He showed basic paddle usage for beginners. OK, two points off for not the perfect text book stroke.
On sites like this, if you screw up in any way, look out, you’re going to get your butt kicked. I personally don’t take kayaking that seriously to get crazy about the perfect paddle stroke.
crazy about the perfect paddle stroke?
Don’t want to get into an argument here but I was not being crazy about the perfect paddle stroke. When you teach beginners, especially when you do a video, you should model the stroke so that the important basic ideas are represented. Not lifting water at the end of the stroke is important for stamina. It is a basic feature of the forward stroke, not a later refinement. Keeping the lower arm straight is also basic and is easy to model. Just doing those two things will add pleasure to the new paddler’s experience and be a basis for later refinement.
How about
a link to a video that shows good form and better torso rotation. That might help to show some of us how to improve our paddling.
Seriously, I hope those who have
"critiqued" this video have “watched” your EVERY stroke to ensure they have been correct! Oh my! I think some here need more time on the water and perhaps volunteer to teach others how to ‘paddle’. Really folks! Get a life and perhaps you can give newbies on the water some pointers.
Shirlann
By far best post in this thread.
Borrow a forward stroke
Video from your local library or buy one. Epic’s Forward stroke video is good, there are a couple of DVDs from Ben Lawry for forward stroke as well as for other types of strokes. Look there, I’d say. I’m sure there are others.
REI used to hire ACA & BCU certified
instructors to run their classes around here (e.g. Roger Schumann). Then they must have figured out they could charge the same thing and pocket the difference by going with their own in-house talant. Embarrassing but true story: I was in Elkhorn Slough one day when I see this REI seminar going on. The instructor says, “Now I’m going to demonstrate an eskimo roll.” Sets up, and over he goes. One flail, two flails, three flails, then he wet exists, comes to the surface and announces, “Now I am going to demonstrate a paddle float rescue.” Didn’t miss a beat.
When at REI, I often used to ask what kind of certification their instructor’s had. They skirted the issue and didn’t get back to me. I quit asking.
just seems dramatic to me?
Based on his posts over time, I would think Kocho has a pretty fun paddling life. He seems into fast river currents, which I’m not in too often. I’d be happy to paddle with him in his environment and would trust in a few tips from him.
A friend and I helped someone get their first roll yesterday evening shortly after I posted my response.
I think forum discussion and an active paddling life go hand in hand in a lot of cases. I wouldn’t have thought much about the video had I seen it on its own vs an “analyze this video” post. But I think Kocho could do a good service in trying to help improve the available instruction. He isn’t saying he’s perfect. I know I’m far from it. The guy in the video could likely teach me some things. But when it’s in someone to seek improvement, they often seek it from all angles. This seems a pretty good forum for this type of discussion, and it seems there are some differences in opinion on whether the video serves its purpose or could use a little tweaking. Maybe a useful enough discussion given good intentions?
As far as any value in my little critique, I have tweeked my shoulders causing some discomfort several times over the years. I know other paddlers that have, and I know one that had surgery a couple years ago as a result of an avoidable serious shoulder dislocation and I haven’t seen on the water since. It really should be harder for me to just agree that the instruction serves a good purpose. I’ve experienced first hand some of the little things that cause shoulder injury, and I think it’s ok and even useful for those with experience to share. Not saying you couldn’t ever catch me extending my shoulder back in different circumstances. Just saying I practice to avoid it. And I think Kocho’s point about instruction fits right in here. It doesn’t really seem a “cast the first stone” situation.
As a silly side note, Shirlann could very well be a fine paddler with a fine life. And I think that’s a good thing.
A bit different
If I’m making instructional videos, I think it’s fair to criticize my technique. If I’m just a regular Joe out paddling for fun, I may take a few ugly strokes and I feel fine about some good ol’ arm paddling.
If newbies are coming to you for instruction and technique, you ought to at least show good form for most of what you do. This guy has a couple of bad habits. A newbie immitating his stroke will get tired faster and might end a long day with a sore shoulder or worse.
not sure
I don’t know most of the people here on p.net, but I did have my paddle strokes analyzed on a few occasions, mostly for ACA IDW/ICE. As a matter of fact, I liked it so much I signed up for another round in November. Surprisingly, criteria “do what feels good”, or “do what gives you a hard on” are never used. Words “that wasn’t so bad” are sometimes heard.
Maybe I should go to SM Anonymous, if such exists, and open with a line - I am an ACA instructor, and I love to have my paddle strokes analyzed for Certifications.
REI
REI trys to provide “expert” advice on all their products.
REI
REI trys to provide “expert” advice on all their products.
I’ll just say this:
Some of the least critical remarks in this thread come from people who are among the most experienced paddlers in this forum.
Is it winter already?