Another stupid newbie question - Touring in a long fishing kayak?

I’m very new to paddle sports (3 years), please pardon the silly questions. I’ve had 3 kayaks, the current #1 is a Jackson Coosa HD. Love it, so it’s not going anywhere, just thinking of adding to the fleet. The questions below are really related to 'kayak speed". I’ve searched for reviews of touring vs. fishing kayaks, but that has been frustrating. I can’t find direct comparisons of the different categories of kayaks.

I want to make some overnight trips on our large Tennessee lakes (Kentucky, Barkley, Center Hill). I know it would be possible in the Coosa, but…

  1. Why are the touring and expedition kayaks all sit-in boats?
  2. Should I look for a longer boat?
  3. Is it ridiculous to think about using the SOT Kraken 15.5 for multi-day trips on inland lakes?
  4. Would a 15.5’ sit-on fishing kayak paddle as fast as a sit-in ?

That last question is based on paddling in a group - If I’m on a 15.5’ Kraken, how often would a 16-17’ sit-in touring kayak be waiting on me? (For reference, I’ll average around 3 mph on flat still water in the Coosa)

Thanks for the replies,
Troy

I am going to leave you with link to articles on this site you should look at. But on the big stuff…

Expedition kayaks have to potentially carry a ton of gear and clothing, and keep it dry. A sit inside kayak is the only type that has enough dry storage. [Later edit - for people who aren’t backpacker light… I was wrong to say it can’t be done. I can’t stay that light.]

Overall a skinnier boat is faster than a wide one. There are additional factors like amount of rocker in the hull, but skinnier will
generally be faster. Skinnier means longer to have the volume the boat needs for stability.

The rest all depend on you, you paddling stroke, how lean you can pack. No hard answers there.

Look on this site, references and articles under Learning in the top line menu. Especially.
https://paddling.com/learn/category/getting-started/understanding-watercraft/

There also is an article in a past issue of California Kayaker Magazine on different types of kayaks that might be worth reading. Can be read for free at http://calkayakermag.com/magazine.html. Issue 10.

Note - fishing kayaks are generally a type of sit on top kayak.

Adding to what @Celia said, the Kraken is 30" wide, where a similar sea kayak would be 22-24" wide. And all the scupper holes on the Kraken would add additional drag. If you paddled the Kraken and then a touring kayak of the same length, you would noticed the speed difference (but also other things, such as how tgey treat stability and the feeling of being enclosed in a cockpit - likely feel cramping to those used to a SOT).

I have done multi-day camping out in the Boston Harbor in my Scupper Pro, 15’x26", which I use for ocean fishing. I come from a backpacking background (have the gear) and can can go pretty lean in equipment. The challenge for Boston Harbor Islands is that I have to carry all the potable water with me (usually 5-7 gallons). The trick is to test paddle with a full load to figure out how best distribute the weight to minimize weather/leecocking issues, especially important since the scupper pro has neither skeg nor rudder.

https://www.rapidmedia.com/kayakangler/categories/news/4649-back-to-the-future-return-of-the-scupper-pro

Another link (like the author I have the scupper pro and the RTM Disco. I feel the latter is better for a lighter, more experienced paddler because of the rocker that makes tracking harder for the beginner}:

https://thelonekayaker.wordpress.com/tag/scupper-pro/

sing

The rule of thumb is:
The longer the waterline the higher possible top speed.
The skinnier the boat, the easier it will be to paddle due to lower wetted area.
A lot of variables enter into it but that is where to start.

Everyone else has answered pretty concisely previously.

However, the short and long of it is:
Longer boats have skinnier middles…Less Drag.
Any boat with Scupper Holes…More Drag.
Any boat with a fat/wide middle…More Drag.

More Drag = Slower.

Thanks all, lots of great points.
I had not considered the additional drag of scuppers, but it makes perfect sense. Peter-CA mentioned the confined feeling of a sit-in, and for me that is a bit of a factor. Stability is also a concern, I’ve always had wide kayaks and have never felt “tippy”. I’m a little worried about the big rolling waves that can pop up on KY lake.
All things considered, the next boat will probably be a $ decision.
Thanks again!

I have done several 20 mile days in a WS Tarpon 160, and have camped from it. I’ve also had it in the ocean when we shouldn’t have been there and it handled it well.
It is not as fast as a sea kayak but I could sustain 3.5 mph without too much effort.

@string said:
I have done several 20 mile days in a WS Tarpon 160, and have camped from it. I’ve also had it in the ocean when we shouldn’t have been there and it handled it well.
It is not as fast as a sea kayak but I could sustain 3.5 mph without too much effort.

I have heard WS is discontinuing the 160.

Sea kayaks have a lower center of gravity. When I sit in my CD Solstice vs my Hobie Quest the SOT Hobie feels unstable.

@Troy J said:
Thanks all, lots of great points.
I had not considered the additional drag of scuppers, but it makes perfect sense. Peter-CA mentioned the confined feeling of a sit-in, and for me that is a bit of a factor. Stability is also a concern, I’ve always had wide kayaks and have never felt “tippy”. I’m a little worried about the big rolling waves that can pop up on KY lake.
All things considered, the next boat will probably be a $ decision.
Thanks again!

It’s all compromise of your main criteria with secondary criteria and your size and skill level. If your main concern is to mostly fish with, stability is affected by width. If touring, then length comes into play for speed and more load.

Skills, stamina and size moderate the other factors. For me, I can paddle my Scupper Pro almost as fast my SINKs. It feels plenty stable but still do have present a problem when rolling it with the thigh straps installed.

sing

@Troy J said:
TI’ve always had wide kayaks and have never felt “tippy”. I’m a little worried about the big rolling waves that can pop up on KY lake.

One thing about boats that are wide and “stable” as you describe, is that they actually handle quite poorly in large or steep waves. A boat with this kind of stability always tries to remain aligned with the surface of the water, but if that surface is steeply tilted, like on the side of a wave, the boat is forced to tilt as well. A boat that is narrower and/or has a more rounded hull profile (instead of being flat-bottomed) which rocks easily from side to side with a “rocking chair” feel may be unnerving to a beginner, but in rough water when waves pass beneath the hull and the surface of the water tilts steeply, with the tilt changing rapidly, the boat is free to do that same “rocking chair” thing relative to the water’s surface and thus remain mostly upright, rather than being violently rotated back and forth. In rough water, it’s a far more comfortable situation when your boat is not “locked in” to match the tilting water surface.

The rest of the time, boats with less stability are inherently faster, or require less effort to go a certain speed (depending how you look at it), since a hull with a rounded profile has less wetted surface area for a given volume of displacement.

Yeah, what Guideboatguy said above; plus you answered your own question when you said you could average about 3 mph. In the first hour, the sea kayakers will be a mile, or more ahead of you, or they will be lily dipping and bored stiff.

@magooch said:
Yeah, what Guideboatguy said above; plus you answered your own question when you said you could average about 3 mph. In the first hour, the sea kayakers will be a mile, or more ahead of you, or they will be lily dipping and bored stiff.

Oh my gosh. Really… I doubt you would deign to paddle with anyone in an SOT. You are P-Com kayak expert who the rest of us could only hope to see the stern end of from afar. LOL!

sing

Unless your SOT is a ski.

@string said:
Unless your SOT is a ski.

I’m caught in the middle. Slower than the sea kayaks and faster than the lillydippers, so I paddle with the slow group. That’s fine, but they often don’t want to work on speed or conditioning. Most are just chilling, a skill I have difficulty learning.
A type A in an aging type C body.

@string said:
Unless your SOT is a ski.
@string said:

@string said:
Unless your SOT is a ski.

I’m caught in the middle. Slower than the sea kayaks and faster than the lillydippers, so I paddle with the slow group. That’s fine, but they often don’t want to work on speed or conditioning. Most are just chilling, a skill I have difficulty learning.
A type A in an aging type C body.

Touring is type of endeavor with a paddle craft, of any type. Fitting in with group, trying to meet the group or someone’s else expectation or judgement, is about group or interpersonal dynamics. One doesn’t have to play that game or be impacted by the BS.

sing

@sing said:

@string said:
Unless your SOT is a ski.
@string said:

@string said:
Unless your SOT is a ski.

I’m caught in the middle. Slower than the sea kayaks and faster than the lillydippers, so I paddle with the slow group. That’s fine, but they often don’t want to work on speed or conditioning. Most are just chilling, a skill I have difficulty learning.
A type A in an aging type C body.

Touring is type of endeavor with a paddle craft, of any type. Fitting in with group, trying to meet the group or someone’s else expectation or judgement, is about group or interpersonal dynamics. One doesn’t have to play that game or be impacted by the BS.

sing

True, but my wife is not happy if I go alone.

@string said:

@sing said:

@string said:
Unless your SOT is a ski.
@string said:

@string said:
Unless your SOT is a ski.

I’m caught in the middle. Slower than the sea kayaks and faster than the lillydippers, so I paddle with the slow group. That’s fine, but they often don’t want to work on speed or conditioning. Most are just chilling, a skill I have difficulty learning.
A type A in an aging type C body.

Touring is type of endeavor with a paddle craft, of any type. Fitting in with group, trying to meet the group or someone’s else expectation or judgement, is about group or interpersonal dynamics. One doesn’t have to play that game or be impacted by the BS.

sing

True, but my wife is not happy if I go alone.

Ok. Some dynamics are almost lifelong and require finesse. You are a wise man. LOL!

@sing said:

@string said:

@sing said:

@string said:
Unless your SOT is a ski.
@string said:

@string said:
Unless your SOT is a ski.

I’m caught in the middle. Slower than the sea kayaks and faster than the lillydippers, so I paddle with the slow group. That’s fine, but they often don’t want to work on speed or conditioning. Most are just chilling, a skill I have difficulty learning.
A type A in an aging type C body.

Touring is type of endeavor with a paddle craft, of any type. Fitting in with group, trying to meet the group or someone’s else expectation or judgement, is about group or interpersonal dynamics. One doesn’t have to play that game or be impacted by the BS.

sing

True, but my wife is not happy if I go alone.

Ok. Some dynamics are almost lifelong and require finesse. You are a wise man. LOL!

Not particularly wise, but not stupid. She has final approval on boat purchases.