So if xyz puts me on their “ignore” list, they won’t see my posts or subjects, no?
Went for my nightly walk and while doing so…I realized something.
People are ragging on me about what the chinese city has to do with paddling.
Already explained that this is a general discussion group…
but my original post was in the political thread of
PNW heat dome clam bake, or something stinks with how we treat the earth!
which was not started by me
and many of those complaining about me being off topic here are the same ones who were posting in that political thread, making political statements.
So again, as seems a good rule of thumb–those who want others censored/banned want it done for their own personal/political reasons. It has nothing to do with the poster, rather the POV of the poster.
Funny how that works, but been working that way since the 1970s just in different forms.
How many times did you post in the global cooling/warmer/weather thread again?
Why didn’t you chime in on it being off topic there instead of posting your political posts?
Don’t feel bad as a lot of people who are calling for my banishment in this thread also posted their politics in that thread.
People are so predictable. They themselves should learn from that and actually try and grow up a little.
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Well, I don’t find the science political, but obviously some do. If you might notice after it became so political I decided not to contribute to it anymore. When I realized my mistake like an adult I changed what I was doing.
When I considered the vitriol it engendered it seemed to become somewhat toxic in my view. In fact I thought it would be deleted by the mods because of how toxic it had become. Way too much argument for arguments sake. I stopped posting to the thread. Not the waters I care to paddle.
Like I said Bicker and Banter isn’t what this place is about. It was wisely dropped from the menu years ago.
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So the virus that “leaked” from a lab in the PRC that it looks like the US funded hasnt affected your paddling?
Not calling things what they are is silly. Ignoring a man made virus that has killed millions because THIS time it is insensitive to name it where it started is silly.
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All terms have definition, It is the requirement of spoken language. Only someone who is illiterate could operate without understanding this.
Free speech is commonly constrained by bounds within a given context. Hence the ability to charge someone for yelling fire in a crowded theater if someone gets hurt because of resulting panic.
In the case of a privately run or moderated board, or company or similar environment, the tradition in the US is to allow enforcement of some rules by the private owners. In fact arguing against that puts the ones complaining in the position of advocating governmental or community takeover of a private business.
I guess if George Carlin were alive he would have to change his 1972 bit about 7 words you can’t say on TV. Last night I watched (forced) a Seth Rogen romantic comedy on TV that contained all of George’s banned words from 1972 and a few new words. Of course there was no Internet and no forums or on line social media in 1972. If George were alive today and the pithy nature of his commentary I’m sure he would have the list of 7 words you can’t say on the internet. What a difference 50 years makes to what a society deems acceptable.
I also agree a platform like this has the right to run their business anyway they feel fit to run it, and we the people that make it profitable by drawing readers and producing “hits” that produce revenue have the right to stay or leave. If enough leave the forum will cease and the revenue will stop. So insomuch as we play a part in the business of running a web forum we may not have the final word but should have some word.
I don’t think very many people oppose banning vulgar profanity and derogatory hate words. I know I don’t want to read them and there is no reason a forum about paddling can’t operate within a PG rating on vocabulary.
Now the word in question and how it got banned. I personally find it also strange and wonder how it found its way onto the banned list. It makes me wonder what other words are on the list and why it was banned. It is clearly not a dirty, vulgar or insulting word. It clearly would be fine in a G rated movie. It is used on network TV non stop and no one comes on and says if you have small children cover their ears. It is not a word like calling out “fire” in a theater.
It is the owners of the forums right to not allow it and it is my right to wonder why they did.
I came here to learn and discuss paddling related subjects and I knew when I came here this forum like all forums is comprised of lots of different people from all walks of life with all kinds of believes and opinions on all kinds of topics and I likely might not agree with everyone on everything.
Paddling like it or not was effected by the pandemic as almost everything was. I might not even be here if the pandemic hadn’t made it so hard to buy a boat and if I didn’t have so much extra time being stuck at home. Boats rely on labor and material from all around the world to become boats. I don’t have a problem if a little geopolitical relevant conversation takes place and mods should be there if it gets out of hand.
Like the climate change thread most of us paddle because we want to enjoy nature and things that effect nature are important to us. So why not talk about them if we want to. Adults should be able to talk about topics they may not agree about and do so respecting the others viewpoint. That no longer seems to be the case though.
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Well… By my count SeaDart posted exactly once on that thread. He recounted his recent experiences traveling through the west.
Agree with Celia, all terms have definition. (Bill Buckley himself once famously pointed out “Words have meanings”.) Some words, however, have become so badly abused that they’ve come to lack much meaning at all. Those are words that are probably best not used, though their prohibition is probably as unwise as it is unenforceable in general public usage. Its not verboten, more like loud disagreeable noise that one should avoid.
For example, the word “politics” used to refer to the project of negotiating how we might best live together peaceably in communities, towns, states, countries, etc. Quaint notion, eh? It now seems to apply to climate observations, microbiological findings, population growth, religion, whatever someone wants to declare a “political” topic. So if a topic is “political” is it one of debate? About what… Popularity? Control? Winning? Economics? Constitutional interpretation? Tribalism? Animus? What? Maybe the desirability of maintaining healthy mussel populations? Can we make that political, too?
And why then is such a meaningless term used so often as a pejorative? What’s the point of even using such a word, especially as it regards a paddling related topic. But, alas, its true people are predictable… but some more than others, to riff off Mr. Orwell’s other well known work - unless that one’s gone down the memory hole.
Perhaps we should rather bat around consideration of the word “rancor.” Where did that bat come from, how has that bat taken up residence, and in which belfries. Of what use is it supposed to be to the possessor? Who’s responsibility is that, anyhow?
This is amusing. This thread by me was about what happened to a post I did in another thread where my post was edited due to me typing the word of a city in china.
So this thread was specifically about who/what moderation takes place here.
And some people jumped in to demand banishment?
The mods/owner/? changed this thread about censorship into “unwanted political trolling post”?
So asking what happened when a post was edited by someone/something is “unwanted political trolling”?
Crazy. It wasn’t political…but it was for the some…which has nothing to do with me or my post.
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So let’s get back to paddling.
Anyone know of a kayak rental place in W u h a n?
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A professor I had defined ‘politics’ as, “Who gets what, how, and what difference does it make?” I didn’t agree with most of what he said, but really thought that was a good definition.
If it’s not state sponsored science like in china or soviet russia for example, then the money spent on science has to have some merit. And in academia, the “publish or perish” is very strong as is the bribes/threats to institutions who don’t provide the funder what they want. This is more in the open now with the ‘cancel culture’ but that’s existed since the 70s.
Science can be very political. Someone using “science” can attack a sector of the economy, wanting to kill it, while dumping boatloads of money into another. Crainology used to be a very accepted science of the progressives in the progressive era. Those scientific facts were used politically to target blacks for example.
So your thread was political tho you might not have viewed it as such. You handled it well as did a few others–if they didn’t like where the discussion was going, then just duck out. That’s simple. No need to call for banishments/shunning of people.
Let those who remain, do what they want to do which apparently was stay there and talk.
We should be adult end mature enough to do that.
George Carlin’s impact is not just in the cussing he did himself or what he listed as verboten.
The lasting legacy of Carlin is what he said, succinctly, bluntly, and with deadly aim at the US population’s tender spots.
One of my favorite bits is his sketch of Americans and all their “stuff.” Cuss-free summary point from it: Doesn’t anybody just go for a simple WALK anymore??!!!?
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Yes he had a way of breaking a complex time into simple bits anyone could understand. He was edgy for his time but by today’s standards he would come across as a grumpy old guy and many PTA mom’s language would make even George blush. I also loved his bit about his stuff. I like canoes for that reason they allow me a larger mini version of my stuff to go with me.
The sad part to all this is today’s culture has for so many provided only one perception of truth and the inability to realize there are alternate truths. You don’t always have to take an alternate truth as your truth but you should at least let your mind investigate them openly. Very few people possess that skill today.
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We do so much better at photography!
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I agree
The titled change of this thread I suspect is a reminder of what the site does not want to see here. Which became avoiding politics in favor of sharing paddling topics. After the sites experience of providing a forum for the political called “Bicker and Banter”. The title of the forum summed it up! The majority here never used it once they checked it out. It isn’t here anymore, and I doubt there are many that want to see it’s return.
This is after all a private site with rules. If you don’t like the rules that’s fine, but that doesn’t mean they have to be changed to accommodate political rhetoric.
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in the 15 years before 2020 i am quite sure the word wu han has never been uttered on this forum. Lets see if we can go another 15 years without it.
Ya’ll angry boomers asking about guns and viruses are free to find other venues to discuss this, and many other sensitive topics that do more to divide than unite, and certainly have nothing to do with Paddling.com
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I actually see the name change as having an opposite effect.
I have been an admin and mod on another forum for many years and from time to time things go off kilter and require a mod to go into the thread and calm it down or eventually even close a thread and on a very rare occasion ban a member. In all my years I have never seen a topic changed in a way to make a statement and allude the OP was trolling the forum. Changing the title was not intended to address the issue in question or explain the forums stance on certain. All I can see is it was intended to inflame the debate.
I agree with @MClmes above the mod should have at minimum came in and made a simple post that the forum is for paddling related topics and this is an issue of no concern to members wishing to talk about paddling. Then just close the thread. The other thread on shell fish dying should have had a statement made that it looks like everyone has had a chance to offer an opinion the thread has ran its course and is being closed.
Think how you would react if the mod changed your shell fish thread to say (Unwanted climate change theorist trolling post). It is not the admin/mod job to rile feathers or take sides.
Never being a Mod I don’t know what the standards are. Nor did I say it was an appropriate choice, if you read that into it. I tried to explain why it might have happened given the site’s past history. It should be clear I agree with that choice to keep “Bicker and Banter” off the site.
Yes, I would be put out if my dead shellfish title had been changed to “unwanted political trolling post”. If that becomes the case I would also realize that it was considered not appropriate here, and ask to just delete it. If that is what they do that is their choice, and I am fine with it. I have been here long enough to value the people here.
We have new owners, and we really don’t know what their standards are/will be, or what software changes have/will be made. So who knows what past values on this site will remain or change.
I am sticking around for now. I have benefitted from the unselfish sharing of time and knowledge of many here. I have made several life long friends too. There are many I would enjoy paddling with whom I may never meet. Something to be thankful for.
It seems to me the original query, because of it’s connection to an emotively loaded topic, was taken in directions not intended by the OP. Only a few comments really address the raised concern.
As users of any forum we should be made fully aware of the rules underwhich we post. I went back and read the FAQs just now and found the usual ‘be nice’, ‘avoid name-calling’ sorts of rules. Other guidelines are about as vague. “Before you post ask yourself if you’d want to see it on the front page of the New York Times” was an interesting one.
However I did find this: “moderators reserve the right to remove any content and any user account for any reason at any time. Moderators do not preview new posts;…”. Apparently previewing posts IS something that now occurs via electronic means, if I understand the OP’s post detailing what happened.
I agree that a private forum has the right to set the rules. Users should be made aware if algorithms are in place to moderate/censor/edit posts.
The very fact that acerbic replies showed up in response to a perfectly legitimate question about how a post was mysteriously edited shows how easy it is to default to assuming that another we don’t know must be the worst sort just because of a single word. It wasn’t the word that created the problem per se, it was the deleting of it without explanation. I don’t know the context in which the ‘word’ was used, but if there are trigger words, publish the list, please.
Why didn’t, as others have suggested, a human moderator step in to deal with this? For that matter, why hasn’t a moderator posted anything to clarify the situation in this thread?
I have been concerned since the first notice of change of ownership went out. That exchange did not impress me, sounding defensive and deleting posts that were critical of the new owners (there’s that delete thing again!). In that exchange Jeff encouraged us to share “pain points” about how things were administrated. This thread would qualify, don’t you think? Yet no clarification or input from the powers that be.
Bueller? Bueller?
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I totally agree I come here to read and talk about paddle boats and recreation on the water. I also agree we don’t need a B&B sub-forum. I also know that it takes two or more to B&B. @KayakerBee is correct we should be able to know what is off limits but the problem to that is someone will be posting a list of every known foul word ever spoken along with the name of a city in china.
I’m pretty sure there is a generic file that gets plugged into the software that tosses certain words and likely the forum owners brought with them their list of words for all the forums they run and plugged it in. But somewhere in the chain of command a human has the ability to add and remove words from the banned list and someone in the last year and a half added this one. The good question is why? Do I really care? Not that much.
There is a bigger question though and it is not to be B&B here with people that don’t really know anything of the inter-workings of the internet. There is likely a place where people care about such stuff and that’s where I would take my question.
I often ask myself the question how nice the internet is and that other than my home connection cost I have never paid a penny. Google and FB and all these sites that everyone enjoys so much are just fun free things, like playing Candy Crush on your phone all day. Why?