I know you experienced folks have this down pat and have developed your own unique paddling styles, but as a beginner (just had my first paddle trip to launch my second season of paddling) I am still very conscious of attempting to develop good habits for this “work horse” stroke. For the sake of discussion in this advice thread we are not talking about any type of racing or power stroke, but merely the forward stroke style techniques that one would use on an extended paddle trip.
Here’s what goes through my thought process (mental how to checklist) as I get in my boat and pick up the paddle:
grip = relaxed with hands spaced just a tad wider than shoulders.
posture = sitting up straight, but I do feel myself lean forward slightly on the catch.
forward stroke = I’m able to keep a nice relaxed grip throughout. My top hand is usually open and I push away as I pull with my bottom hand. This seems to assist me with torso rotation and I find I have less than 85-90 degrees of elbow bend at the completion of the stroke.
OK, it’s not all about me!! Here is what I’d like to learn from you intermediate to experienced brothers and sisters:
Am I on the right track here with my technique?
Even as experienced paddlers, do you have one side that feels more natural than the other? (BTW, I’m hopelessly left handed and feel my technique is more natural when I’m executing the stroke on the left side of the boat).
As intermediate to experienced paddlers, do some of you find even though you learned the basics, you have developed a foward stroke that may not be text book, but still have an efficient stroke that you can use mile after mile on an extended paddling trip?
Do you ever see other experienced paddlers that may have a very unorthodox forward stroke style, but hey—it works??
What are the most common mistakes that you notice as a paddler approaches that would clearly indicate that it’s a “newbie” and hasn’t developed a proper technique?
Is there anything else I should be asking?
I have learned lots in this paddling forum and I want to offer a hearty THANK YOU to all that have taken the time to offer some really great advice and tips that foster my learning as a new kayaker.
When I first started kayaking, I used a high stroke and kept the blade in close to the hull. I thought it was practical. It would minimize side to side turning.
Then folks on this board clued me in to torso rotation. As I included a torso twist into the stroke I found that a lower angle worked better than higher.
The GPS and my performance in comparison to my fellow paddlers absolutely proved that using the torso and a lower angle stroke was better for me.
I read about people leaning forward. I get better results if I lean back somewhat most of the time and lean forward just to fatigue a different set of muscles.
In short... get a GPS, set it on 'speed', and see which strokes / angles / muscle groups work for YOU.
Oh yeah... how can you spot a 'newbie'... I recently paddled with a novice. He was behind me and we were going around 4.5 mph or so. I could hear splashsplashsplash really loudly compared to when paddling with my more experienced partners. DAVID! This ain't you! This was a young, basketball playing guy.
A newbie will also look at the paddle blade as it enters the water. Their head will turn from side to side as they paddle.
Grip I’d experiment with moving your hands out towards the blades a bit more. One common suggestion for hand placement is to put the center of the paddle shaft on top of your head, and move your hands until your elbows are at a 90-degree angle.
You sound like you are on the ball. I have often wondered if I have a “textbook” stroke, and many times start fooling around trying to do more rotation.
It ends up feeling very uncomfortable, so I just resign myself to if it works, don’t try to change it.
I would say if you can paddle all day long and still feel fresh at the end of the day you are probably paddling as good as anyone else.
I agree with my friend Kudzu on the GPS.
I am going to use mine today doing mile and a half intervals. I am hoping to hold them at a 6 mile pace.
Head turning I’ve recently been through some ACA classes working towards getting instructor certifications. We were taught to turn the head when modeling a “correct” forward stroke.
2. posture = sitting up straight, but I do feel myself lean forward slightly on the catch.
Leaning forward on the catch will retard torso rotation. Reach forward by turning the shoulders, not by bending forward at the waist.
Am I on the right track here with my technique?
The fact that you are putting so much thought into it puts you ahead of most beginners.
Even as experienced paddlers, do you have one side that feels more natural than the other? (BTW, I’m hopelessly left handed and feel my technique is more natural when I’m executing the stroke on the left side of the boat).
Absolutely. I definitely still have an “off” side when it comes to bracing and rolling.
Do you ever see other experienced paddlers that may have a very unorthodox forward stroke style, but hey—it works??
Yes. One guy I paddle with often does it all wrong according to “the book” —all arms, no rotation at all. But he keeps up with me easily over any distance and is at least as fast. Paddling like him would wear out my arms very quickly, but it works for him. Another guy I know punches forward aggressively with the top hand and “levers” the paddle against the low hand. Again, it would never work for me, but he paddles further and faster than I can.
What are the most common mistakes that you notice as a paddler approaches that would clearly indicate that it’s a “newbie” and hasn’t developed a proper technique?
Lack of torso rotation. But—see my last comment. Also, gripping with the hands too close together, and using an excessively long paddle.
Couple more things. Most of the power in your stroke should come at the beginning. As you approach your thighs ease off in preparation for taking the paddle out. The paddle should come out just before you get to your torso. That is way earlier than seems comfortable at first but it gives you a quicker stroke and avoids expending energy “lifting water”.
instructor sighted at 200yds I haven’t been around a lot of ITs(instructor trainers) but for awhile I was seeing some major over emphasis of torso rotation by ACA instructors,without much emphasis on a clean catch or release,er,it’s ok to look forward.
most common mistakes pushing hand goes up and down,
lack of wind up,get the blade forward by rotating,a lot of beginners attempting torso effort engage it with more of a neutral position than a “wound up” position.
#5 "5. What are the most common mistakes that you notice as a paddler approaches that would clearly indicate that it’s a “newbie” and hasn’t developed a proper technique?"
Here’s what I notice:
Leaning way back into a tall seatback (causes many of the rest) while paddling.
Shoulders kept locked at right angle to boat.
Windmilling arms.
Lopsided strokes (some high, some low - many more on one side when just trying to go straight, etc.)
Odd boat movements (heavy sided to side boat roll with each stroke, no lean on turns [usually more like no ability to turn], and the classic - “Duckwalking” with the bow waving back and forth [partly due to most newbies being in very short fat boats]).
Note 1: These things all sort of overlap and reinforce each other.
Note 2: Desribes the majority of folks I see on the water locally.
Note 3: I appreciate the reminder to watch my form every time I see one!
Note 4: The original poster is obviously past all that already! Siting up and working in rotation fixes 90% of issues - the rest is fine tuning catch, etc.
After ahuge day of paddling do you find yourself using your having to use your torso more because your arms are tired. I still do; so I know I have more work to do. Brent reits video, Class with him, Greg Barton, or Oscar Chalupsky if you can, a top instructor in your area etc.
I have a lot of time on the water, but my forward stroke still sucks.
Some of us are going to do the Brent Reitz class soon. He lives ini Santa Cruz and gives the clas every weekend. I figure I should take advanatage of that kind of training since it is so easily available.
And the biggest sign of all Going very slowly in calm conditions!
There are strong guys who can armpaddle at a decent clip but usually they tire out after a relatively short time. And if the wind comes up, they can’t muster any extra strength; it’s all gone just going “normally.”
With torso rotation, there’s a surprising amount of reserve strength available when the going gets rough. If you’ve ever pulled a core muscle and gone paddling, you will really miss having it be 100% (been there, done that)–your speed plummets and you feel like sh*t.
I think the real test is after a few consecutive days of paddling several hours a day. Arm paddlers are tired; those using better technique just get stronger.
Exactly that’s how I broke myself of pure arm paddling when it was just me and the boat - no P’net help, no videos, and knew no other paddlers (and lessons on an SOT - yeah, right).
I simply when about as far as my arms could get me - then had to paddle back! Doing things the hard way! I couldn’t get a big wide boat much more than 10 miles on arm power alone without developing serious shoulder issues. Used to to 15-20 regularly on that boat, a couple 30s.
Upside was when I did look at the Brent Reitz tape, I knew exactly what he meant and it was a tune up more than a revelation. Water miles are excellent teachers (not that my own technique is anything above mediocre - but it gets the job done).
Being in a narrower boat now, I’ve gotten weak. Had to slack off weights with the Tarpon as I got plenty of upper body work with it. I’m about to bring them back in with the Q700. It’s too easy to paddle and my arm/shoulder power has deteriorated (but abs/back/legs seem as good or better). Technique is a lot easier to work on in the narower boat.
Unorthodox styles I’ve had friendly arguments with a couple of instructors who, when observed, weren’t doing what they said they were doing. That didn’t make what they said wrong, but you can learn a lot just by watching someone good.
Be open to different ideas, give them an honest try, and don’t be afraid to ask “why?”. Curiosity and self-awareness will get you a long way.
Brent Reitz video We found the video very helpful. As a visual learner, seeing was more helpful then trying to imagine. It made a tremendous difference in endurance and enjoyment. Also, we finally gave in to the advice about getting a really good paddle. The big bucks were well worth it, as evidenced by my wife being able to paddle 8 miles without the elbow pain that troubled her the preceeding 2 years.
Proper Forward Stroke = Wing I hope not to offend anyone. However, the forward stroke that Barton as well as Reitz have been teaching was developed based on the wing paddle not on a standard one.
Therefore, it is not possible to develop a proper stroke using a standard paddle.
Watching the Brent’s video is evident that he hates the touring paddle.
At the biginning of the video, Brent uses a wing paddle and racing kayak for a couples of minutes, at that moment, his stroke is awesome.
When Brent starts to teach the forward stroke using a sea kayak and a touring paddle, his forward stroke is not that good. He starts to bend his arm and to hit the kayak constantly.
If you realy want to develop a proper stroke, you should learn using a wing.
Physically impossible It is not physically possible to fully rotate the body and keep the paddle parallel or quasi-parallel to the boat.
One way or another in order to have a powerful stroke, the standard paddle makes the paddler keep the blade parallel to the boat, so the paddler does not rotate or he/she has to bend his/her arms.
??? You’re taking it a bit too far Iceman. Good advice for you - and paddlers like you who are more extreme fitness/racing paddlers for whom a wing IS the only option - but your points do not apply to the same degree to the rest of the paddling world.
Touring paddlers need SOME rotation - and more is GENERALLY better - but most touring paddlers do not not need fully exaggerated wing stroke rotation (to the point where shoulders go fully perpendicular to the keel with each stroke).
Also, you CAN flare a standard paddle out to the side like a wing. It won’t seek it as automatically - but it’s not unnatural either. This will allow more rotation and give a change of pace/muscle involvement (and slight speed increase for most).
The Brent Reitz tape (which I have) IS primarily geared to a Euro paddle - touring stroke - and he discusses wing similarity/differences too. Much more similar than different for general touring use.