I recently got back into kayaking and have been going a lot lately. I bought an Old Town Vapor 10 which I do not regret, especially based on the price I paid and the enjoyment I have gotten from it.
I am considering looking for some end-of-season deals on a slightly upgraded model. I would be looking for a little better speed and improved handling. I realize the Vapor is a basic model and leaves a lot to be desired on long flat stretches. I would probably keep it for some of the smaller and faster moving rivers around here and as a spare if friends who don’t have one want to go…
I seem to keep finding two models which seem to be most-suggested. These are the Old Town Loon and the Wilderness Pungo. I would probably go up to a 12 foot model in either one.
HEre is what I understand are the advantages to the Loon.
-More stable
-Better in shallower waters which would be important to me.
-Heavier capacity
-Impossible to sink with the 3 layer construction (the drawback to this is weight)
-Durable
Here is what I see as being the best parts of the Pungo.
-Tracker better but sits deeper in the water
-Lighter weight but not nearly as forgiving to a flip without additional flotation.
It looks like these are both really good boats. I would like to have one that is durable as I do lots of smaller shallow streams. Which one will wear better or are they comparable? I also don’t want to drag so a lower draft would be nice. I figure no kayak is going to be too bad about this. I may have an in on a demo model Pungo at the end of the season for a very nice price so that is a bonus for that one.
Anyone have experience with both of these two so they can provide a fair comparison?
Having the heavier hull will NOT make the boat safer. It makes it heavier and more rugged but not more buoyant. It will still fill with water (neither it nor the Pungo have sealed bulkheads) and sink and you would be unable to empty and re-enter it if you capsized in water more than waist deep. Neither boat would competently support a spray skirt because of the oversized cockpits.
As long as you are staying in flat shallow waters (which is all that either model is designed for) it’s up to you to decide if you want a heavier slower boat or a lighter slightly faster one, Neither one is a significant upgrade from what you have in terms of enabling you to get into deeper or faster waters. They are still “recreational style” kayaks with limited function. Most people “upgrade” from rec boats to light touring boats if they are looking to expand their paddling options and improve performance.
Due to hull shape and lighter weight you would find the Pungo faster and easier to paddle than the Loon. Loons are all kind of barge-like. Outfitters like them because they are rugged, but they have never been known for performance. The Pungo 120 is 2" narrower and 7 pounds lighter. At 29" wide it is still very stable if that is important to you. Any kayak over 25" wide is going to be more stable than fast. The Pungo 140 would be noticeably faster due to being 4’ longer than what you are used to AND it has dual bulkheads so it is safer for deeper water. It is close to the weight of the Loon 120.
Old Town has discontinued the Loon 138 so you would have to look for a used one anyway…
I see. I am aware that “recreational” boats are somewhat of a compromise. Yes, my complaint for the Old Town Vapor is that it is “barge” like as well. It sounds like the Pungo would be the better of these two.
My main use is going to be on Ozark streams which are typically shallow and have a chert gravel bottom. Chert is very abrasive and basically as tough as glass so will abrade just about anything. These streams also have obstruction such as rootwads/snags that must be navigated around.
I do streams that are part of parks or commercial areas were lots of outfitters go. They do a minimal amount of maintenance by floating down with a chainsaw after flood events to keep them floatable for the “weekend warriors”. There is also a stream near me with no outfitters or maintenance of any kind so the snags just stay until they decay or are pushed along by the next flood.
I really think a 14 footer might be a tad too long.
I was under the understanding that the Loon has some type of foam in the mold so that it is naturally bouyant. I guess for what I plan to do this is irrelevant and I would just buy floatation for the front of the boat.
Based on what I describe, what would one suggest? Again, I really think 12 feet is the limit based on some of the smaller streams I do. I could also keep what I have and use it for those purposes as well.
Unless you are a minimalist camper, the 120 probably isn’t your boat. Not much room for gear except in your lap.
I understand your point about the length. The 120 is good for tight places.
I have been considering a similar upgrade to what you describe although I don’t have to deal with chert bottomed, shallow streams. The kayak I have been looking closely at is the Perception Carolina 12.0. It has dual bulkheads for flotation in deeper water. It is 26 inches wide so I expect it to be reasonably stable. It weighs 49 pounds which is not super light but should be manageable. The hull is cross linked poly so it should be pretty durable.
@cwatkin said:
I am like 165 but would like to do overnight trips with gear now that I am really getting into this.
I also weigh 165, and I can tell you that a 12-footer won’t allow you to carry much more than an ultralight backpacker’s load while retaining good handling. But keep that in mind and operate the Pungo as the decked canoe that it is, and it will be do-able. OTOH - a 14 footer can be made to turn in a pretty small area.
Hey, I went from a WS Pamlico to and Old Town Loon 138 to a WS Capelookout (14.5’). The latter was closed cockpit and allowed me to learn to roll in. The first two are essentially the same old rec type boats (didn’t offer significant differences in performance). If you gonna spend more money, get some something a bit different rather than a variation of the same. Just keep the rec boat you have now and add something that allow expansion in your paddling skills and/or venues.
These are all good suggestions. What if you come across a few months old slightly used demo Pungo 120 for about $600 or so? That is the possible deal I might be getting. The guy who has told me about this works out an outdoors store similar to a higher end REI. He kayaks the local streams a lot and suggests this boat over others such as the Loon or Tupelo. The Tupelo seems quite heavy compared to the rest.
I definitely plan to keep my current rec boat no matter what I get to replace it.
No, I am pretty sure I am going to wait for that Pungo 12 for the price and what I plan to do with it. I will be getting it “off season” so they aren’t ready to move it along yet. I will ask the guy about the Dagger Axis as that looks like a good option as well.
I already have a kayak and am in no big hurry. I am just waiting for the right deal to upgrade to something better.
@cwatkin said:
No, I am pretty sure I am going to wait for that Pungo 12 for the price and what I plan to do with it. I will be getting it “off season” so they aren’t ready to move it along yet. I will ask the guy about the Dagger Axis as that looks like a good option as well.
I already have a kayak and am in no big hurry. I am just waiting for the right deal to upgrade to something better.
I will let everyone know what happens. The big 3 day/2 night trip in my Old Town Vapor 10 got cancelled which is probably just as well since I had so much other stuff going on. The Vapor 10 is not a bad boat for what it is and I plan to keep it as a spare or for smaller rivers. I may move along the spare cheapo that I have though.
I ended up with the WS Pungo 120 and think I am going to like this one. I have used others with a similar hull design and find it stable, yet handles well. This is considered a dihedral hull. I will take it out this Sunday if the streams around here aren’t flash flooding from the tropical storm remnants.