hi all.
ok
for a big man…240 pound.
want.dry ride
stabile
good traking
not to slow
good quality
looking betwen
native manta ray 12
perception search 15
wilderness ride 135
mad rider synergy 14.
those are the i look for…
and for the native manta ray i was looking at the 14 fooeter but i did not like the big space betwen the seat and the place to put the milk crate in the back to far away.
joco.any comment on those would be nice thanks.
What kind of water?
As far as dry, that’s a relative term when you’re talking about a boat that has your butt within inches from the surface of the water and has holes in it on purpose.
In general, longer is faster. Wider has better initial stability (feels less tippy).
I will give two words of caution. Don’t go crazy for “tracking” or “stable.” Rookie mistakes. In real on-the-water use, you get used to “wobbliness” FAST. I’m talking a matter of minutes not hours. Don’t go spending hundreds of dollars extra to buy a kayak that feels more stable, because all that couple of hundred dollars worth of confidence goes out the window in about forty minutes, which is about how long it takes to get used to a recreational kayak’s ‘wobbliness’. Recreational kayaks are all pretty stable so long as you keep it within the intended weight ranges. As far as “tracking” ability, that gets in the way as you learn good paddling strokes and technique. You’re better off learning good technique than falling in love with ‘good tracking’. Remember sometimes you WANT to turn, and ‘good tracking’ can and will get in the way of that unless you do some real counter-intuitive leans, which are not helpful in current. In current, you don’t want to have to lean one way or the other. The third rule of paddling in current is “Show your ass to the current” when making turns. (The first two are 1. The fastest way for a paddler to become a swimmer is to stop paddling, and 2. When in doubt, paddle like Hell.) If you have to lean into or away from a turn because of big, flat blades that help with so-called tracking, you wind up leaning the upcurrent sometime or other and all of a sudden you’re upside down wondering where all the air went wishing you had bought the dry bag for your cigarettes. Sorry for the rant. I get irritated with the tracking mantra that seems to get shoved down the throats of beginner kayak buyers.
- Big D
The Search 15 is said to be the drier
boat if that’s important. Both are very good for their purpose. The Search is a bit faster. Like Big D says, any boat with holes in it is going to be on the wet side. The Ride gets a real mix of comments. Some say it is a wet kayak, yet others in the same weight class say different. I’ve paddled the Ride and liked it. Myself, I’d probably get the Search. I like longer boats with better glide. But, I fish primarily warm water lakes and slow moving warm water rivers with plenty of width for maneuvering. But, then again, probably not. Think I’ll go with another solo canoe next time. My little Wenonah Sandpiper has been a bunch more fun than my Loon 138.
Ride 135
1st of all, I have little experience with other yaks, but I will give you my 2 cents worth on my Ride 135. I looked long and hard before buying my 1st yak. That doesn;t men I made the right decision, but I think I did. The Ride 135 seem to track well, yet it will turn easily to me. When I 1st got it, my intended use was going to be primarily fresh water creeks. I did go once and was very happy with the performance. I wanted mainly stable and dry. I feel I have a good combination of both. The Ride now has no scupper holes under the seat. All the scuppers are in the floor in front of the paddler, exept for 2 in the tanlwell. I have been somewhat disappointed in water that comes into the tankwell, but almost all of that comes in when I’m lauching my yak off the cart. I have found it to bae a stable boat. I am 61yo and have some arthritis. I can stand and fish out of it. I have even thrown a cast net out of it while over flooded mashes. I got interested in salt water fishing right after I got my yak. If you get the chance, give the Ride 135 a try before you buy. Please let me know how it compares to the others you are thinking about.
A fiend of mine (druminator) has a Hurricne Phoenix 130. He weighs as much as you and says it is a very dry ride. It is more tippy than my 135, but he seems to get along well in it. He also has paddled many other yaks because he has had several and has worked in a store that sells them. He has also worked with a couple of yak companies, helping them improve their fishing versions. I am thinking Hurricne has a 120, 130, 140 and 160, in the Phoenix model. About the tippiness. Druminator says it has awesome secondary stability.
I hope this helps.
Big D
Thanks for all the info on yaks. I enjoy your comments immensely and find them to be very informative. I feel I know very little about yaks, but am getting there. If I get the chance, I may buy another yak in the future, and your comments help a lot. If I buy, it will probably be a used one.
You’re welcome
For what it’s worth, the Ride 135 gets its tracking from a radically different hull design from how most recreational kayaks get tracking.
The following comes my observations only and not from any sort of physics text or specific knowledge of hydrodynamics or boat design. Please take everything in this post with a grain of salt. It’s just chatting down at the barber shop kind of stuff, surely not worth anything more than that.
The usual way to get tracking in a recreational kayak is to have very sharp angles of entry and exit, which create what are essentially large skegs (I know, it’s not the right term, but it is the function of those portions of the hull) in the front and rear of the boat. Flip over a Perception America sometime and you’ll see what I mean. When you go to turn, though, those things get current pushing against them and you need to lean a certain way to keep the current from pushing against those big blades and preventing the turn. Makes it hard to do a stealthy turn into an eddy you intend to fish. Or you wind up leaning into the current and the current catches a chine or the deck and all the sudden you’re upside down (I know THAT from experience). If you’re paddling in stillwater, no problem. But I fish and paddle in current. Tide counts as current so don’t you salty folks go getting all uppity.
The Ride on the other hand gets its tracking from what is essentially a tunnel hull (again, not the right terminology). When going forward, it forces the water between the bumpy things on the bottom of the hull and creates a ‘cushion’ of water all going the same direction and helps you to go straight. But you can still lean either direction when it’s time to turn AND the hull bumpy things aren’t so high as to create a lot of resistance to turning in the water. So the Ride gets good tracking without losing maneuverability. What you do lose though, is glide. You have more surface area contact with the water and therefore more drag. So, the Ride isn’t as fast or as efficient of a paddler as a more conventionally designed boat with the same dimensions. When fishing, that’s only a big deal if you have a long paddle before getting to your fishing hole. But if you fish like me where the current does most of the work, or if you lillydip along shore casting to likely looking spots, it’s not an issue at all. If you don’t go as far when lillydipping, so what?
If anyone out there who has more experience with water dynamics and boat design sees errors in what I’ve said PLEASE correct it. I’d rather know I’m wrong and be corrected than persist in inaccuracy.
- Big D
The new Ride does not have the same
hull form as the old one. Haven’t looked in a while, but, as I remember, its much closer to the Tarpon in form.
That’s too bad
I liked that hull shape.
MR 14
I’ve got a Manta Ray 14 and a Prowler 13.
The Manta’s a nice boat, both on flat water, and in class 2-3 downriver travel.
Compared to the Prowler, it is a much drier ride, and the front end has a lot more volume.
However, it’s also harder to self rescue than the Prowler (of course this is also relative to your athleticism and body type)something to think about if you are going out in big water.
…
It has the same hull but a much better deck layout.
Makes sense
BigD, what you say makes sense to me. I still don’t know very many of the terns that are used in kayaking. I shuld buy a book, buit so far my Ride 135 is doing what I want.
The ride does OK if there is just tidal current, and even in some wind when it is blowing in the same direction as the tide movement. The only time I’ve had a major problem was when the winds were around 25 to 30 MPH and blowing in the same direction as the tide. Even then, I had severe problems because of carpal tunnel syndrone, but I made it back to the launch site. I had to maneuver between a lot of marshes, but I made it. The last leg, before the launch was across a lot of open water. Both my hands went to sleep, but I knew I had to kep paddling, or else I would have been further away than ever.
Another thing about the stability, is that the only time I flet the yak may flip was when I sitting directly on the very edge of one side. I was doing that just as a test. I can sit with my legs over the side without havinf any worry of it tipping at all.
I paddled a Heritage Redfish 12 once for about an hour. My Ride 135 tracks better than it did. Of course I realize my yak is about 1 1/2 feet longer. The Redfish 14 may feel the same. Both boat were relatiovely the same except for that. I did not test the redfish to see how it felt when sitting on the side. It was a nice boat. I changed my mind about getting a 12 foot baot. The 14 foot redfish was a nice boat too, but I didn’t like the front hatch. Also, I belive the Ride 135 has more room in the tankwell. I have room for an office crate and a 25 quart ice chest in it.
As far as speed, the comparison between the Ride 135 and the Heratge Redfish 12 are all I have to go by. My 135 is at least as fast as the Redfish 12. Both boats are nice boats in my opinion.
Carpal tunnel or not
Going against tide AND 25 to 30mph winds counts as a tough paddle in anyone’s book.
I remember paddling my Ocean Kayak Malibu II in the straight between Assateague Island and Chincoteague Island. I timed it just pitifully and went against tide both ways. I should have gone the opposite direction and been with tide both ways. Paddling against the tide is rough.
I was trying it out to see if I could do the one mile open water crossing and into a cove to do some flounder fishing. I learned that I got disoriented quickly. The length was no problem, but I had no confidence that I’d get to the right place and into the cove, or be able to find my way back to the right canal to get back to my rental house. Paddling around those islands with current requires radically different navigation skills than my river paddling does. My river paddling requires two navigation skills: 1. which way is the water flowing; 2. where’s the takeout. We have a lot of reading skills to learn to keep it people side up in the rapids, but navigation is easy. I decided not to try the crossing and wait until I could do it with someone who has some local knowledge.
- Big D
You can put the crate directly
behind you on a Manta Ray 14. Tried it our for fishing last weekend and had the crate mere inches from the seat. There is a curve to place a bucket there, but no one will force you to.
If you want to use the space behind the crate, you’ll have to run some cord or have someone to help you.
I weigh about 220 and there has to be some serious chop to see water peeping up through the scuppers. Very dry ride compared to most SOTs. Very stable as well. Tracks well enough that I’ve done an 8 miler and a 14 mile trip with sleeker boats and was able to keep up with the crowd.
A wind will push you around a little and cause you to have to compensate, but it’s nothing like a canoe.
The MR12 and MR14 are both worthy fishing kayaks.
If not your cup of tea, try the Synergy.
jim
MR 12 and 14
Those boats were on my list. I liked both of them, but never tried them out. Both were well laid out like my Ride.
Wind
BigD, if I had seen just how bad it was, I would not have even put my yak in the water. The wind was blowing from the opposite side of the bridge where I put in, so the water not very bad on that side. I got into some waves that i believe that were about 3 foot in hieght. It was faily scary for me because The worst I’ve been in so far woud have been less than half of that.
Tidal currents can be bad too, especially when you go through a main channel that narrows. The water pushes through that even harder. I had to learn some new tricks very quickly when that happened. My yak would try to go in an entirely different direction than I was paddling in. If I hadn’t paddled very hard and made the necessary corrections, I would have had to repeat my planned coarse again.
thanks
thanks to all for those great comments and tips.
joco.still looking around.
i already have my pamlico and my emotion fisherman pro…i am just looking for something hsel something
deferent…
the synergy somebody said…mabe…or the native ultimate…will see.
the shoping is a fun part to.
thanks again guys.
joco
big guys boat
– Last Updated: Mar-01-08 7:00 PM EST –
Hi joco ..some of the big guys around here are buying kayaks like a tandem and removing the xtra seat. you would need a kayak that has the moveable seats so you can adjust it for balance in the kayak..plenty of room for eveything in them and you have a large cockpit opening to get in and out of. you just need to shop around to find the right one.
PS: they do make scupper plugs for SOT's ..I'm sure they would help kep water out of areas you don't want it. and you can pull the plug when u need to drain.
hi BEAU GUEST
– Last Updated: Mar-01-08 8:17 PM EST –
you talk about gething a doble kayak and do a solo one..
that is what i have done whit my pamlico last year...
here a tread and picts about my kayak.
pamlico 135t transform in a solo kayak then i rig it for fishing..
http://kfs.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/948607442/m/7921008983?r=8731018983
and i tell you its one hell off a great kayak to fish up here.
but i am looking for something to bring my friends..something comfortable and dry. and that could be fish in cold condition and cold water..
joco
Great job
Joco, you’ve done an outstanding job on rigging your yak. I have a SOT, but I would not mind at all having a SINK like yours.
thanks.
thanks ROUSE D…
the rigging was fun to do.
can t wait to get something to rig it again.
and that kayak is hser is great for fishing…tons off place for stuff and moves around.
jooc