REMOVE THE 1-10 SCALE
that’s the only thing I’d do. Let people express themselves as they will and prospective buyers beware. The scale implies an objective standard,when it’s obvious it’s not.
What do you think the likelihood is
that manufacturers or their employees are posting reviews for their own boats or gear to promote interest?
Builders tooting their own horns?
I think that probably happens, though I have no way of proving it.
It would be cheap advertising, and possibly nudge someone off the fence in the direction of dropping their plastic on the boat.
Fair? Ethical? You judge.
I saw today that someone has a nice Kevlar 22’x18" expedition boat for sale, and wondered how many microseconds I could be afloat in that boat before going face-to-face with a mullet! 
The more experienced guy would probably hop in the same boat, do 3 consecutive hand rolls and proclaim it to be the next GREAT thing.
Here’s an idea on the review standards: I think there is some agreement on the relevance of your paddling experience, height, weight, and shoe size in the text. Some mention of the conditions in which you’ve used the boat and the results would be good. If you’ve had a particularly good or bad experience with the manufacturer or a dealer, perhaps a FACT-BASED accounting of the specifics would help weed out the rascals.
Beyond that, what else would be helpful?
Bob
I know of one
CLC Sport Tandem.
primary purpose of the reviews is NOT
… to tell you what to buy. The primary purpose of the Reviews is to steer new boaters to pnet.
Most people contemplating a major purchase will try to find some information about the product. When you search for info on most canoes or kayaks, you will see a link to a paddling.net review. Due to Brent’s excellent site design, new paddlers automatically get enticed into checking out the site’s other offerings.
When it comes to relying on the opinions of people you don’t even know, or only know through what they say about themselves, you have to decide for yourself how much weight to give their opinions. For me, reviews may entice me to get a little more serious about the real process of considering a particular craft.
I think this site has more to offer when you post specific questions about specific models on the Advice board. People love to talk about boats they have paddled or owned. The people who share their opinions on the Advice board are likely to have posted on other topics. You can then search the archives by the author and see what else they have said. That can help you determine how much weight to give their opinions.
Most of the people who have reviews out there don’t have a history of other postings that you can check out. But, that’s ok, we want people to write reviews without hassle or jumping through hoops. The reviews steer many new people to pnet, and that’s a good thing!
Reality Check
Isn’t this like closing the barn door after the cows get loose?
I’d wager that most people (like 90%) buy things first and then research their choice later.
After all, how many people do we know that actually read Consumer Reports before buying anything?
As for myself, I have 5 canoes hanging from the rafters of my shop and when I look back every one of them was an impulse purchase and one lesson I’ve learned from 54 years of living is that one usually gets what they pay for (i.e. I like my expensive Old Town better than my cheap Old Town, but I prefer my Navarro over both Old Towns, but in the end I like my Bell even better!).
To rephrase, after most people buy stuff they want to be reassured they didn’t make a mistake, so only then do they read – and write – their reviews.
Key words: “most people”
simple way to make reviews better
The simplest way to improve the reviews would be to ask the webmaster to add a few more boxes to the review forms: namely, paddler’s height, footsize, weight, hours spent paddling in boat, and conditions boat was paddled in. People are astonishingly obedient about filling in forms.
True, but …
It might be true that people are astonishing cooperative when it comes to filling out forms and answering personal questions, but anyone who has studied statistics also knows that you’re lucky if even one-half of the respondents answer truthfully.
reviews encourage more research
when I first found p.net it was because I was searching for info to make an informed purchase, finding there were so many more varieties and brands of boats were available encouraged me to reseach more , try many different boats and traveling to attend attend FBO demos, where I ended up getting a necky dolphin.Reviews generate interest and broaden peoples knowledge of what is available along with contacts for advertisers. Most people who come to p.net are not posters, I lurked for months before ever posting and disappear for months when work demands my full attention. The other benifit was unexpected, finding a great bunch of people who shared my love of the water.
Know what I’d like to see…
Is a star rating system, say 5 stars is excellent, 4 stars is worth consideration, 3 stars is ok, 2 stars is hardly worthwhile, and 1 star is don’t even think about it. Features of each boat could be compared as well, like cockpit size, seat comfort, foot peg adjustability, deck rigging, rudder use, skeg use, storage capacity, ease of rolling, stability, glide, suitability to that particular tester, ocean/lake/river characteristics, materials and workmanship, weight issues, and any other criteria necessary for anyone considering a kayak for the first time, or for those who need real specifics about other kayaks of interest to them. This would combine real world experience with subjective viewpoints of the actual users. It would help me more than reading “well this boat was great, had lots of storage, and it paddled like a dream.”
reading many posts and reviews
because this is one way I can educate myself through the fall and winter and make better choices next year
this is a sport where lying about your weight is really dumb
and also a sport where if a manufacture misrepresents the weight the boat is designed to hold and some poor slug doesn’t demo it first - chances are if that poor slug doesn’t give up altogether they won’t want to buy a boat by that company the next time around
My second SIT purchase was, I thought, well researched, but I didn’t demo it. I thought if I had something light I could handle more easily on my own I’d get more experience paddling but as it turned out my experience was to be using the bilge pump! I “perceive” that I will not going to believe manufacturers specs in the future.
I’ve read some disheartening things about Wilderness on here but if I’m glad my first SIT kayak purchase was a Pungo. This boat has provided me with a “safe I can do it” feeling out in the water and as a beginner I need that.
I keep reading the various comments and reviews about the Eddyline Nighthawk and find them confusing. What happens if I find I can dig up the money, I demo it, buy it, and then try to take it out on Lake Michigan and it weathercocks - and I’m not sure what weathercocking is?
So in the meantime I’m going to read every post, review, and comment folks put here and hopefully keep losing weight.
If a person says they weigh 300 lbs and a certain boat worked for them, I’m going to keep track of that in my notes. Not who, but what boat.
Meanwhile I will read, save, swim, and diet.
Even though I’ve had the Pungo three years, this is the first year I’ve really had a chance to use it and I’ve lost track of how many times - but I’ve loved every minute I’ve been paddling with it.
My computer blew up the other night - so now I’m thinking maybe I’d better settle for the 14 foot Wilderness and a new computer next year.
The Nighthawk or a Kruger might have to wait until 2008.
I guess the point is, all honestly provided information is helpful but the reader needs to learn to discern what is helpful to them and that means absorbing information from what folks say without being in a hurry to make a quick decision.
When you are new to something, sometimes a person doesn’t have enough information to even begin to know what questions to ask.
This is one of the marvelous things about this paddlingnet site - one can read and study and even ask dumb questions sometimes.
arbitrary units
nope,some characteristics are skill dependant. Without comparative markers defining the reviewers skill it’s just another “it’s a TEN!”
What about an Ordinary Guy Forum?
– Last Updated: Oct-28-05 4:17 PM EST –
How about one written by average joes like me who are enthusiastic about paddling and excited about an online community with which to share that enthusiasm. I love this forum because we have valuable professional insights posted as well as personal accounts written by paddling novices. I realize that due to my limited time, experience, and budget I will never be mistaken for an "expert" paddler. However, I may have some thoughts and observations that just might interest others in this forum. It would be nice to share these views without fear of being discredited by the professionals. I therefore submit that the format for this forum and its product reviews continue as is, good, bad, and ugly. Besides, what's wrong with a little "kayak grade inflation?" When we're on the water, it's all good, right?
Erik
Amen guy !
I’m with you.
Cheers,
JackL
Sounds good to me!
PS to lindakeith: Thistleback and I are two female paddlers who have owned Nighthawk 16’s for awhile now and I know I would be happy to answer any questions you might have and I’m sure that Paula would, too.
Sold my Yak board, so now reviewed it
Just did it today.
Me Too!!!
– Last Updated: Oct-28-05 6:04 PM EST –
I am 6'3", 195 lbs of solid muscles, dark and handsome. I look like a ninja, albeit a big one, in a dark wetsuit.
All boats rate a 10 'cause I can paddle them all across the 7 seas.
And as ScupperFrank would say...
dream paddlin' on. :)
sing
who has never read what seems like an exagerated claim by the men folk in these forums. ;)
Review to paddler ratio is so low,
more reviewing of paddling craft and accessories should be encouraged. Every reader must learn to ignore and sort through some content in reviews as well as content on any message board. Happy paddling, and reading, and reviewing! mickjetblue
No Way To Edit Your Review?
The biggest problem is that there is no provision to edit your review in the future.
At least I didn’t notice one.
Truthfully
– Last Updated: Oct-29-05 5:19 PM EST –
Can truthfully say, "I never bought a boat based on Pnet reviews".
Do I read them? Yes, I do on occasion. When I do read them; I automatically throw out any extremely low rating, especially if the majority of the reviewers are rating the boat in question in the 7 to 10 category. When I read, "its too tippy", I stop reading that review. When I read the beginning of a "this boat sucks" rant, I stop reading the review. I take all the 10s "with a grain of salt", and just try to gain a general idea of the boats qualitites/faults.
Still, I will not buy a boat based on stranger's reviews. I might take the reviews in consideration, but a look/see & a test paddle is generally the final word for me.
Are their any boats I would buy without a test paddle? Yes. If someone wants to sell me a brand new & very slightly used Swift Osprey, Hemlock SRT, or Bell Magic, for half the new price, I'll
test paddle it after I get home. I can live with my mistake if I made one. Please email me some photos if you have one for sale.
BOB
P.S. If you have a like new Blackhawk Zephyr, or Sawyer Summersong you'll sell for half the new price; I'd probably buy them without a test paddle too.