Simple for you with 8’ rack spacing and
a rack made of steel tubing mounted to your truck bed. Most racks aren’t that sturdy or that far apart. The bow on long boats on my car, whether canoes or kayaks, does shift around,sometimes significantly, when in strong side winds or when passing or following large trucks. The strongest and most reliable belly straps available won’t keep the bow of long boats from being torqued side to side in such conditions. This torquing of the boat also torques the rack mounting feet and the canoe gunwale brackets or kayak saddle or foam pads and it is this torquing and stressing of these other components and the boat that could be somewhat reduced by the use of bow and stern lines.
Your rack situation is much different and more robust than most paddlers, such as me.
Of course, I, and they, could buy a pick up truck and similar rack system to transport boats and then bow and stern lines might not be quite as important.
Again, your rack system is more robust than I think most paddlers is, especially the systems of relatively new paddlers, so keep this in mind when recommending against bow and or stern tie downs.
also…
Trailer rack spreads tend to be wider than many auto roof rack systems - widely distributing more of the load and reducing side twisting forces.
We’ll agree to disagree
The way I see it, we're not saying the same thing. One should always get the best rack they can lay their hands on. After that, secure the boat directly to the rack with straps AND to the car with multi-point bow/stern tie-downs. One could route a second set of straps over the boat and through the windows, but this is a much bigger pain than using ropes as suggested by virtually all rack and boat manufacturers. This way, you can survive multiple catastrophic failures and still exit the situation with your boat on top of the car.
Discounting neglect or fraying, the likelihood of the tie down ropes (ratchets) breaking is much, much lower than the straps breaking or factory rack failing. They're your second line of defense, not a primary securing method. Your bow/stern tie downs have to resist less force than the rack and straps; it's simple physics. Besides, if one attaches the arguably heavy ratchet end to the car rather than the boat, there's nothing to fly around except rope if anything fails.
I don't think the Yakima rack on my car is crappy; on the contrary, it seems quite solid. Odds are it'll hold up just fine, but I'm not much of a gambling man. In the unlikely event that my rack spontaneously disintegrates or both tie down cam-lok straps snap, maybe all I'd sustain is a dented hood , bashed windshield, destroyed boat or perhaps cause a major accident.
On the other hand, with the bow/stern tiedown ropes backing up the rack and straps, the worse I'd suffer is scuffed paint.
I'll take the latter.
Telling people not to use bow/stern tie downs is like saying wearing a full face motorcycle helmet is a bad idea because an impact could ram the chin protector into your jaw despite the fact that the same impact sustained without a helmet would likely shatter your entire face.
Phreon
My take:
If you have faith in your rack system and your tie down method then what ever floats your boat and keeps you happy is the best method.
What floats my boats and keeps me happy for the past twenty odd years and seveal hundred thousand miles at highway speed is:
A properly installed after market rack system such as Yakama and Thule (I don’t trust a factory rack). Double looped camlock buckle straps, (not ratchet type straps). They can hurt your boat or rack, whichever gives first).
and no front or rear tiedowns unless you have a light weight composite boat with a over hang in front so long that you are afraid that the wind shear will damage the bow by wanting to raise it, in which case front tie downs (loosly tied) would be in order.
Cheers,
JackL
Nice post, Yanoer
another vote for
I used to come down on the other side of this issue but after discovering some movement in my rack, I’ve used them on anything but quick local trips under interstate speeds.
My only reasoning is safety. I think the “lift” reason/excuse is pure rationalization bs.
I think cooldoc makes a great point in emphasizing to check your rack as much as possible and to not do so is negligence.
Wat ah’ do…
Ah' always use stem tiedowns, period! Just as a backup for my super-duper, heavy-duty, raingutter mounted Trac Rac Van racks (the roof has to pretty much git torn off before those racks fail) with 1.5" NRS straps as belly bands. But ah' still put on those stem lines every time ah' put a boat on me car.
Me questoon is - "Why de need fer dem ratchet thing-a-kabobs on yer stem tiedowns anyway?" Those ratchet things are jus' another thing to fail an' yer don't want ta hunker down on stem lines too much anywho. Ah' figger - jus' keep it simple. Ah' jus' use strong prussik rope an' a trucker's hitch to tie onto either my strap loops bolted into de perimeter of me engine compartment (so ah' don't git any rubbin' on me paint job) or to SS eyehooks in my bumper in the front an' trailer hitch in the back fer me longer boats. Dat kind'a eliminates de "flailin', ratchetin' stem tiedown strap through yer windshield an' cuttin' innocent bystanders in half an' creatin' intergalactic mayhem syndrome" dat a few folks git thaar bowels in an uproar over.
FE
factory roof racks
I've never had one give way. Ever. After years of abuse on many cars.
I can tell you I stripped a factory rack off a pathfinder in the junkyard and it was a bitch. NOT just sheet metal screws.
In my experience the factory rack is attached with sheet metal screws and glue.
so
the factory rack crossbars are even more weak than a sheet metal screw-mounted factory rack rail?
I think you’re overblowing the weakness/concern here.
You never need bow/stern tie downs
… until that time that you do.
You know…
They miss the point completely. I have had family killed & injured by an poorly secured load from a tractor trailer,different I know,but the same potential from your boat. That's why I am so passionate about this subject.In todays lidigation society,THINK,a few dollars,and 5 minutes,may save you a ton of grief. If this post gets me throwed off p-net,so be it,I at least know one,maybe a few will get the point.
Sorry for the rant. billinpa
on hood/bumper wear
Expensive fix is to get a plexiglass bug deflector. Inexpensive fix is to put some electrical tape over the wear areas.
Huh?
“Using ratchet straps, yes, the crank ones that back_pakn despises above (I respectfully disagree with everything he posted)”
Where did you get that I “despise” ratcheting straps? I did say that they are typically bad because of the risk of overtightening. Thats hardley despiseing, and even someone like yourself who uses them cannot say there is not a risk of overtitentingt them.
And after reareading my post, I’m a little confused about why you dissagree with everything I posted. My points where:
- Everyone is going to have their own opinion
- It’s a personal choice you’ll have to make
- In my opinion, I’ve payed to much for my kayaks to not use the added security of a bow/stern tiedown
- I use the same “ratcheting” tiedown ropes as the original poster and don’t have a problem
- Ratcheting straps have a very real risk of overtightening
So what do you disagree with? Like a said, even as someone who likes and uses ratcheting straps, you can’t honestly say that there isn’t a very real risk over overtightening the staps.
Well said Brian.
Many here are of the opinion that “I have been driving X years and have hauled Y canoes and Z kayaks and I only use belly tie-downs and have never had a boat go airborne”.
you never need insurance until…
Jim
In the meantime I will rest assured that I am secure here at the Church of What is Right and Proper for Cartopping. Let me hear an “AMEN!”
Ayaeeeeeee Mayaa’en!
Hey, what’s the skinny at the Middle Yough takeout?
I can’t imagine that it is actually closed. What would they do, put barricades up?
I’m going to call Riversport later, they depend on that TO for their livelihood.
Scotch material
Scotch makes a clear material that can be applied to painted surfaces for scratch resistance. Comes in rolls and sheets. Forget it’s name, but it is available in automitive parts stores.
Jim
never lost – YET
Suit yourself, but you do aptly serve to make my point.
I hauled and never lost a boat for 38 years, and then, bang! bang!
Two years, two lost boats.
It just occured to me …
This thread is quite like our “death” threads which pit the superhero crowd vs. the shit happens crowd.
I hauled boats for 38 years until I lost one and you can bet that after looking at my friend’s Wenonah Spirit with its bow freshly ground down to a tumblehome profile, I wished I had been more careful.
As stated earlier: it only takes a minute to throw on an additional line, so why not do it?
Perhaps you may end up having “wasted” those precious minutes if a shit happens event never strikes you, but don’t you want to be ready when it does?
Most of you won’t leave the dock without wearing a lifejacket, so why would you play russian roullette with your boat along with others who may have the misfortune to be sharing the road with you when that shit happens moment arrives?
I generally
stay away from these posts, because they turn into such a mess of differing opinions, but for once I have to put in my .02 cents. I’m fairly new to kayaking and hauling equipment on my roof. But with my father I’ve towed boats on trailers for 15 years so I have some experience in properly securing loads. My mother was nearly killed when 2x4s on someone’s roof not properly secured came sailing through her windshield just after I was born, so like Billinpa this is a big issue to me.
Bottom line - regardless of boat size, rack configuration, etc I always use bow and stern lines, safety first period. Bow/stern lines are the EASIEST part of racking a boat, why skip them? These lines are going to save your boat and possibly someone’s life if your cradle straps inch loose over time, or for some reason fail completely. And if something does start to loosen up on your roof, the movement on your bow and stern lines will be the driver’s first indication of a problem, giving you time to correct it before disaster strikes.
And you can be assured that if someone on the highway has an improperly secured boat that launches at my vehicle causing me to have an accident and causing myself or passengers harm, I’ll sue him/her for every dollar they’re worth for negligence, because that’s what it would be. If your boat would come loose, and you didn’t use bow/stern lines, and it is shown in court that you improperly secured your boat causing someone’s death in a traffic accident you’d likely face vehicular homicide charges plus you will have taken some innocent person’s life. No amount of righteousness over how strong your rack system is will ever replace a person’s life.
To the original poster - use the bow/stern lines, they are well worth the little bit of effort required on your part.
Roof rack on wheels
That’s one thing about those fancy trailers, Sportsrig and Rand-and-Roll, that I don’t like. I wish one of them would put their nice soft-riding suspension around a proper boat trailer frame layout, lowering the recommended hitch ball height while they’re at it.
Mike