Hello,
I am a novice to proper kayaking, still maybe I ought to know this but, can a longer paddle be a faster paddle on flatwater? Is the leverage of a longer stroke with more reach, advantageous in a flatwater lake race? Can’t seem to find information about this. Thank you,
Many beginners start with paddles that are too long. My outfitter sold me a 240 cm with my first rec boat. I now use a 230 in the same wide boat. I used a 210 in my surf ski.
A paddle that is too long can over stress your arms and shoulders, especially with a high cadence.
I know I didn’t answer your question, but IMO a properly fitted paddle is your best bet.
For most people, longer paddle would not be faster. Likely actually slower.
When you paddle, you want to pull the blade as parallel to the boat as possible. A longer blade is more likely to not be parallel, but instead paddle an arc stroke out away from the boat.
Support from this is that the professional racing paddlers use relatively short paddles (definitely not long paddles).
No, as above usually slower. One reason is what Peter mentions, too long a paddle tends to start turning the boat a smidge during the stroke. A boat not traveling dead straight is a slow boat.
Also a longer paddle can slow down your cadence, and a lot of speed is in a faster cadence.
Too long of a paddle will hurt your shoulders and wrists over time though.
No, but if you don’t have a wing paddle, get one. You’ll go faster with a wing then with a euro in a race
@JackL said:
No, but if you don’t have a wing paddle, get one. You’ll go faster with a wing then with a euro in a race
I would add that with proper knowlede of the paddle stroke with a wing paddle, you can go faster. I see plenty of people using wings but using the same stroke as they would with a euro (standard) paddle, and would hazard a guess they are no faster than they would be with the euro blade.
Anyone know of tests done that show if changing to a wing but not changing stroke method is faster than just staying with a euro blade?
I do not paddle kayaks, and have no kayaking experience to offer, but I do have a Placidboat Rapidfire, which is generally meant to be paddled with a double blade, as is required by the rules when that class of boat is racing in the Adirondack 90 miler. (to be honest, I strongly prefer using a single blade in that boat.) Race paddlers in that class of canoe use a very high angle stroke, keeping the blade close to and parallel to the hull for best efficiency and speed, just as when a single blade is used. Shorter paddles fit the bill better than longer ones. Canoe or kayak, I would think that the longer the blade and the wider sweep would only serve to increase inefficient yaw, slowing the boat with each stroke.
Wow great thoughts, thank you all! I will go for a 230cm at the longest for my new paddle, and look into ‘wing’ paddles. Have only owned & paddled old fiberglass ‘torpedo’ type boats thus far, $50 specials. The new boat is a Stinger XP, about the same length boat as I am used to, but also very different. Had not put any thought, at all, into arm & shoulder stress but I had better change my ways and look out for that. When I paddle I rotate the paddle through the stroke similar to one-sided canoe paddling which tends to offset tracking issues even though my boats have smooth bottoms, and take long strokes from torso, twisting a great deal, as far as possible really with every stroke. I look forward to improving and normalizing my technique!
I had thought that with the much longer stroke I lessened the ‘downtime’ between strokes but, can’t be doing that at the expense of my arms & wrists…
I think there are a couple of other factors to consider. In a sprint race, there is no doubt that high cadence is called for and thus a relatively short stroke. However, when I set out on a longer distance, all day paddle, high cadence is not my objective. I want the most efficiency out of every stroke. I’ve tried everything and what works for me is low angle and a little longer stroke–somewhat past my hips. The low angle allows this without lifting water and a bit longer paddle permits the extended stroke without the need to exaggerate torso twist. This technique seems to work quite well with a wing,but I generally use a Euro.
The boat design also makes a difference. My long distance boat (19’-2") is a solid tracker, so there is no yaw. A person’s body shape, size, height and arm length is also to be factored in.
Don’t get too stuck on any one style; experiment and see what works best for you.
Thanks Magooch, I will be experimenting a lot this Spring, in the beautiful NH/VT area of New England. The longer distance paddling that you describe, is my most common paddling situation, usually it’s putting in, paddle a couple miles to camp, set up then goof around practicing rolls and control in general though since I’m self-taught, my technique likely needs improvement in every area. Looking forward to it!
I have wondered whether I ought to invest in a ‘shaped shaft’ kayak paddle but, have never used one. At this point I prefer a low angle stroke such as you describe, for sure, but it will be really interesting to try a shorter paddle. The only paddle that I have now, is very long, I believe it is well over 100" lol! I hope to get in some classes this year, I feel my skill level is ‘functional’ though also rather uninformed. Enjoyment level is 100%, even so!
@Sasquanch said:
… The longer distance paddling that you describe, is my most common paddling situation, usually it’s putting in, paddle a couple miles to camp, …
Two miles…by then I’m just loosed up. That’s really a short paddle. Ten miles to camp would be a short day paddle. Everybody’s paddle needs are different.
@Overstreet said:
Two miles…by then I’m just loosed up. That’s really a short paddle. Ten miles to camp would be a short day paddle. Everybody’s paddle needs are different.
True, Overstreet. I hope to enjoy much longer paddle/camp adventures this summer. I have a undertaken only a few, much longer overnights in the past - on the CT river, & off the coast of RI.
My friends enjoy kayaking shorter camping trips, paddling in a much more leisurely fashion so, if I want them along I set my sights on gentle trips that they are comfortable with. I like paddling solo but on a camping trip I find it more fun to be with others in familiar, controlled small water circumstances. Tiny, really, Smith Pond in Canaan, NH is the most common kayak camping destination among friends. If someone doesn’t want to paddle, they can easily walk a trail to the campsite.
The answer is NO.
I ran some what-ifs using the Werner Fit guide http://www.wernerpaddles.com/fit-guide/). The Stinger XP is a crossover between touring and white water, so I checked both. For whitewater, it suggests something i the 190-200 cm range. For touring, if you are a high angle paddlers, something like 205-215 cm. If low angle paddler, 220 cm unless you are taller than 6’ and then 230 cm.
So it is possible even 230 cm may be too long. YMMV, but I paddle similar width boats for my touring, and generally prefer to use a 205 cm paddle.
@Peter-CA said:
I ran some what-ifs using the Werner Fit guide http://www.wernerpaddles.com/fit-guide/). The Stinger XP is a crossover between touring and white water, so I checked both. For whitewater, it suggests something i the 190-200 cm range. For touring, if you are a high angle paddlers, something like 205-215 cm. If low angle paddler, 220 cm unless you are taller than 6’ and then 230 cm.So it is possible even 230 cm may be too long. YMMV, but I paddle similar width boats for my touring, and generally prefer to use a 205 cm paddle.
Thanks Peter, also thanks for the link. Maybe I’m in the 220cm range. I have a long torso, wide shoulders, not sure the usual measuring will work for me though I’m 5’ 7" & fit. I am a low angle paddler though as I progress toward learning more proper technique that may change. I appreciate the thoughtful response! Have you any thoughts on the paddles that have ergonomically shaped shafts?
A 230 is way to long for you !
Get an adjustable one between 213 and 220
Also if you do consider a wing you need to change your stroke to a high angle and learn to rotate with it.
There are quite a few considerations, but generally speaking, no, it is not faster.
Pulling the paddle past your hip is redundant and actually slows the boat down–this is true whether you’re racing or recreating.
What you’re looking to accomplish with your stroke is to reach as far forward as you comfortably can and then place the blade in the water and pull yourself forward using your body and legs. You should be exiting the water in front of your hip at the latest. This is not just for racers.
A few other considerations before you consider your paddle length is how wide your boat is and at what angle you enter the water.
To test your length, go to the water, reach your front arm out comfortably forward–your arm should almost be locked out at the elbow.
Find the comfortable level of your back arm–for touring, your elbow should be significantly lower than your shoulder and your backhand should be lifted to almost 90 degrees when the blade is entered.
When the blade is fully submerged at this point, with the backhand position maintained --this will be your proper paddle length.
Here’s a visual aid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp08y9W-f0E
@JackL said:
A 230 is way to long for you !
Get an adjustable one between 213 and 220Also if you do consider a wing you need to change your stroke to a high angle and learn to rotate with it.
Thanks JackL, I have been reading up on the wing paddles. I want to get one, but I have a lot of sweeps and control strokes that evidently won’t work so well with that sort of paddle.
One thing I’ve learned in asking the question and thanks to the many responses, is - I need more than one paddle, for sure!
@Mountainpaddler said:
There are quite a few considerations, but generally speaking, no, it is not faster.
Pulling the paddle past your hip is redundant and actually slows the boat down–this is true whether you’re racing or recreating.
What you’re looking to accomplish with your stroke is to reach as far forward as you comfortably can and then place the blade in the water and pull yourself forward using your body and legs. You should be exiting the water in front of your hip at the latest. This is not just for racers.
A few other considerations before you consider your paddle length is how wide your boat is and at what angle you enter the water.
To test your length, go to the water, reach your front arm out comfortably forward–your arm should almost be locked out at the elbow.
Find the comfortable level of your back arm–for touring, your elbow should be significantly lower than your shoulder and your backhand should be lifted to almost 90 degrees when the blade is entered.
When the blade is fully submerged at this point, with the backhand position maintained --this will be your proper paddle length.
Here’s a visual aid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp08y9W-f0E
I have a lot of work to do. Thanks for the link and the explanation MountainPaddler. i have watched it, I twist my torso WAY more than that, so much that I am facing 45 degrees to the side with my shoulders at the end of my power stroke. I don’t know if I can even learn to get the paddle out of the water before it passes my body but watching others I ought to be able to figure it out. Seems a lot easier actually.
The stinger xp is 24" wide, similar to my other boats but, has a large cockpit for that size, larger than my other boats. I’ll have to find lessons, I have too much to un-learn. I super-appreciate the advice!!!
John
Learning is all part of the fun–good luck!