5mm Handle Cord
Just thought that I would let you guys know that I just signed the change order to convert to 5mm handle cord on all Necky’s. Those will start shipping when our inventory turns over.
Also, I think people over reacted to my earlier post. Steve posted a well balanced and well written evaluation of the Chatham, my only objections were around a perceived insuation that we were putting out an unsafe boat (if it weren’t for the entrapment comment in his second post I probably would not have posted anything). If anyone thinks that I over reacted and/or was defensive that is only because we take safety very seriously.
no whey
I don’t think you over-reacted at all,Steve is playing a fun game providing experienced opinion on a lot of things while having a vested interest in the Tempest.
I found those OceanKayak/Necky handles and immediately bought four pair of them and showed them off to folks as an example of good design, the thin cord is obvious bean counting since sand and salt will wear a toggle line in a tight metal padeye and no one wants to drop a kayak while carrying it over the parking lot. As much as carving a wood toggle or a PVC tube would work those handles are too comfortable to pass up. I never was much of a gorilla for carrying heavy things in my hands.
DUDE!!!
thanks! you ROCK!!!
Safety is #1. I hope no one thought I was claiming un-safe here!!! Just EZ improve, which is already done. Way to go.
steve
Well…I Have A “Bone”
– Last Updated: Feb-06-04 7:28 PM EST –
to pick with ya. It's guys like you that advocate and design big A$$ cockpits that make it difficult for us po' little folks. Heck, it ain't entrapment I am worried about, it's falling out of a cockpit before I have a chance to roll!
You should see the amount of foam I stuck into the side hip area of my Capelookout and the amount of foam I built up under the deck. Even then, I was falling out of the boat if I didn't lock my knees against the side of the hull whenever I was in the capsized position. Okay, okay... I should have practiced with a neo skirt rather than nylon and, yeah, I didn't realize that boat was built for someone a hundred pounds bigger than me... It was afterall my first "touring" boat. But darn it, I think that huge cockpit was pretty standard on most of the WS boats.
sing (who has a skinny arse)
yeah a
T-160- Low volume, 16 X 20.5". I’ll see what I can do!
=:-0)
steve
Damn, Steve…
– Last Updated: Feb-06-04 8:18 PM EST –
am I so transparent? :)
sing
P.S. If you, WS, or some other company had thought of this sooner, poor Pikabike wouldn't be covered in epoxy -- swearing away -- while trying "fillet" those inner seams in her Merganser 16 project. :)
Took a roto C-16 out today
for an hour. I planned on surfing the mouth of the San Diego River and saw a few boardies there. When I came in the overwhelming stench of sewage chased me away. I liked how it handled in breaking surf. It rolls easily and I spent lot of time in deep water cleaning off. I enjoyed the boat. Maybe I can try a Tempest when I head north this spring.
Talk about a quick response!!!
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a manufacturer respond so fast to customer feedback—Bravo! to you Squash. Love your boats by the way, I have two. Tomorrow I’m going to try to get out and demo a Tempest 170- to see if it’s all that.—Rich
cockpit size…
This is one reason I’ve been buying used vs. new boats. Other than a few VCP models and Bestie Bay boats, there just aren’t many boats that have cockpits small enough so that you don’t have to splay your legs against the sides to keep from falling out of the boat (just the opposite of what you have to do to stay in a SOT with thigh straps!). Give me an ocean cockpit any day — just lift your knees (in any position) and you are set to brace, roll or whatever! Fortunately, there are plenty of older boats out there — many are the same models that have been ruined for folks who prefer a more positive fit to the boat (e.g. the entire Foster line).
It’ll do her good
to build herself a boat! Everyone should do it …once! Nothing like the smell ( or lack of) of epoxy in the morning. a few brain cells, heck most of us have too many anyway!
Pika, I’m going to be in your beautiful state next week. Red feather. visiting my bro-in-law!
sing, now to convince the powers in being that a real small person’s boat is in order. and maybe a Chatham 16- LV, squash? yeah, that’s the ticket. 
steve
Excellent Turn Around
I wish other kayak and gear companies would react this proactively to customer feedback. In my mind, this reflects very favorably on Necky.
My impression from the earlier post appears to have been incorrect. Great work.
Thanks,
Leonard
Yeah, or at least…
don’t go marketing a boat as “for smaller paddlers” when it’s really “medium size” paddlers.
I like my CD Squall but had to add a piece of old ensolite sleeping pad under the thigh braces, which came with minicell padding AND had already been built up! And I still have plenty of wiggle room.
As for cockpits, a 16" wide cockpit is pretty loose on a small person. 14-14.5" would be plenty wide enough.
Just thought I’d add another 2 cents, since it appears that someone from Necky is paying attention to our gripes. 
Now yer talking! (NM)
Redfeather Lakes?
I’ve never been there but have heard they are BEAUTIFUL. Only, right now it’s more like Whitesnow Lakes. We’ve had a week-long cold snap and plenty of snow, with more predicted tonight.
Ya gotta come back when there’s some nice mountain lake paddling to be had! How 'bout some high snow-capped peaks rimming cold, clear water? Hey, bring a low-volume T160 for me to demo, eh.
Okay, Granted
that PikaBike and I are really on the “small” side being 5’3" and less. She much lighter than me. I think a more marketalbe “low” volume boat that can fit more folks but still keep truly small paddlers like me and PB happy would be target towards someone like 5’7-8 and 160 lbs and under.
At last night’s pool session, one of the participants bought her Foster Rumour (reputedly one of three in the USA), something like 16 feet (maybe a little bit longer) and 19" beam and a very low aftdeck. That boat is just sweet. Rolls very easy, great secondary as I was able to submerge quite a bit of the coaming with a tilt and still not go over. Anyway, the point is that another participant who is probably about 5’7" and 155 lbs was able to get into the boat – even the forward bulkhead was padded with foam for the owner. That person trying already paddles a pintail and likes to play in some textured conditions. Now, he represents another possible market segment of a lower volume high performance boat. So it’s not just the “smallest” paddlers out there who clamoring.
Nevertheless, the industry folks monitor the numbers and need to make the assessment of the marketing potential. Seaward obviously decided the reproducing the Rumour is not to their benefit… They may be entirely right. If so, I think the DIY companies, like CLC & Pigmy, are missing the niche by not designing plans and kits to fill the void in the market.
sing
Agree
I’m 5’9", 160ish, and keep trying to borrow my wife’s Tchaika because it’s so much fun to go play in. When we were demoing it last year, a whitewater paddler who was bigger than I am also tried it, and we had a hard time making him give it back.
I know folks are talking about “serious” sea kayaks for small paddlers, but I’m seeing another niche here – something like “performance day touring”, or a rec boat for skilled paddlers. The Pygmy Tern 14 is a good example: responsive enough to reward skill, stable enough for lunch or fishing, and painless to lift onto a rack.
I’m not getting rid of my Avocet, but it does seem like overkill for an evening paddle on the local pond. Pungos are fine boats but they don’t dance.
Eric Schade
I’m guessing that Eric Schade might be the most responsive person in that market for s&g. Pygmy deals with the person in the middle of the bell curve,the Osprey13 is an engineers dream for efficiency/speed but the 22" width puts it into more stability than the small skilled paddler needs.
The CLC Ch14 is a hard to turn kayak with a LOT of stability for the smaller skilled paddler. It was also put into production with no paddler testing,I was there. Also the wood intensive construction method doesn’t yield a significantly lighter hull compared to purely monococque designs when they are downsized.
When I made my 18’x21" four panel boat (as rough as it was) it clued me into the possibilities for a skilled paddler under 125lbs. I’ve got a 1/2 scale model for a 15’x19" kayak that never made it into full size. The thing I noticed about Erics Merganser is that the cross section angles are the same as the boat I built,which is comforting to know one is “in the ball park”. Not sure if Eric has the time or inclination to make such a design but he’s done a lot so far.
yeah right!
only problem is when the water’s not frozen I gotta be working @ home in the PNW. ouch.
So it’s Livermore, CO where I’ll be. yep lots of snow!!!
so weird to be traveling w/o boats on top of the rig!
steve
Radius
Yes but you have to rememberthat the kayak i was testing was merely the prototype and not the finished product.
Everything else about the kayak was great and I found the outfitting to be exceptional.
Cheers…Joe O’
just 1.5 hours from…
some “fine” Colorado, low water, cold weather winter paddling on the South Platte! Plenty of us locals with extra boats if you want to give it a try.
http://www.rmskc.org/places/splatte.html
http://www.rmskc.org/reports/2003photos.html