Seeking current perspectives on long held controversies of kayaking (not taking stand myself, just wish to know current ideas you all hold on following).
1. Do hand pumps really work in rough conditions since if takes about 10 minutes of steady pumping to take out a swamped cockpit and water is coming in over the coaming and boat is highly unstable (water weighs 8 lbs per gallon).
2. Do paddle float re-entry solo work in rough stuff for most paddlers and boats?
3. Do waist towing systems work for tows longer than 30 minutes in rough stuff? What methods work and don't for longer tows. Or do you feel towing is for wimps?
4. Do most of us keep emergency stuff on ourselves rather than the boat so if we lose the boat we can signal and call for help?
5. Do most of us feel we dress for water temps rather than air temps in cold water situations and do we actually get in and stay there for 5 minutes to see if we have enough on?
6. Do most of us carry spare paddles, rig them so they stay on in rough stuff, use a paddle leash, and can we access and stow them in rough stuff?
7. Do most of us have an extended paddle emergency roll up so we don't have to wet exit?
8. Do we tell our paddle mates if we have a physical or medical condition that might affect us and or them on a paddle?
9. Do we feel it is important to get Wilderness Medical training to help ourselves and our pod mates on long, difficult, and or rough trips where definitive medical help is more than 4 hours away? Bring any first aid gear?
10. On solo trips do we tell anyone our trip plan and when to call for help by a certain time if don't show?
11. Your favorite controversy is ___________________.
My answers
1. It depends on whether you’re alone or in a group. Alone, pumping out a cockpit is difficult in rough conditions, which is another good reason for learning to roll and avoiding wet exits. In a group, someone can stabilize your boat and keep the skirt closed except for an opening for the pump, which makes a huge difference. BTW, it takes more like 2-3 minutes to pump out a boat, not 10 and it only takes that long if there’s a lot of water in the cockpit, as you might get from a re-enter and roll.
2. Paddle float reentries are essentially useless in rough conditions.
3. Waist tow rigs work fine for any type of towing. some rigs are designed better than others, but those similar in features and construction to the Northwater Sea-Tec work well.
4. I always have a VHF radio, flares and a signal mirror on my person. The rest of my safety gear in in the boat.
5. I dress for the water conditions. Having done so for years, I don’t test it every time, as I know what I need to wear from experience. However, I do recommend that people who have questions about whether their dress is adequate for the conditions do the “wading-in” test.
6. I always have a spare paddle on the foredeck (Greenland “storm” paddle). I can retrieve and stow it in a matter of a couple of seconds. I never use a leash, as I think they’re more of a liability than an asset and they inhibit the free movement of the paddle that’s necessary with GP technique.
7. I can perform several types of rolls.
8. Of course. It’s critical to the safety of the group that any medical issues be understood.
9. Yes, taking a wilderness first aid and CPR course is a very good idea. It may also come in handy during other activities.
10. Yes, I have a kit with all the items recommended in the WFA/CPR courses I’ve taken.
11. I don’t see anything controversial about the above issues.
water?
I believe the most significant variable is really the paddling environment-protected close to shore vs. open water journeys. Many of your listed items may be necessary in the more serious paddling environments but not in very protected and staying close to shore outings. Some of your points are excellent to be on top of no matter where one is. I believe that one of the general limitations of paddling.net is that posts tend to generalize for the entire kayaking population but waters vary tremendously. If I am paddling along the NJ coast or LI Sound, all of your points might be advantageous from a cost/benefit perspective (as in staying alive). If I am going for a paddle on a 3 mile long calm inland lake and staying close to shore that is another story. Many folks may fantasize but not have the opportunity to actually paddle in challenging open ocean conditions . . . thus your list may not totally be relevant.
My own controversial one . . . the hand roll. Necessary or just a nice skill? (how much effort should be spent on learning to hand roll?)
Do most of us enjoy paddling ?
for the sake of paddling ?
Cheers,
JackL
Concur with Brian
I concur with Brian.
However, the points from your manner of statement that indicate that my take might not be the same as yours are:
waist mounted tows which I belive to be the best from experience in conditions and with handing off towing to another for a duration.
paddle leashes which I used to use but have come to believe can often be a liability.
better to have a pump than not.
Most controversial is use of “most”!
"Most" of us aren't likely doing much of that. But "most" don't post much either, so I'll bite:
(For more serious answers see Brian's post - though it' doesn't sound, based on the "controvery" angle, like that's what you really are after)
1. Do hand pumps really work in rough conditions since if takes about 10 minutes of steady pumping to take out a swamped cockpit and water is coming in over the coaming and boat is highly unstable (water weighs 8 lbs per gallon).
If you belong in those conditions, you can likely make it work. Tricks like sticking the pump down skirt tube (to prevent further swamping) and holding between legs so you can pump one handed and stabilize/brace with the other hand can help - as does rafting up, rigging temporary outrigger, etc.
2. Do paddle float re-entry solo work in rough stuff for most paddlers and boats?
Again, "most" are not solo in rough stuff. Those that are on purpose probably could but likely wouldn't use that as their primary method.
3. Do waist towing systems work for tows longer than 30 minutes in rough stuff? What methods work and don't for longer tows. Or do you feel towing is for wimps?
When you really need to, you just do it (and that sure as heck ain't an undertaking for wimps). As for system, you'll use what you've got (and maybe revise soon after).
4. Do most of us keep emergency stuff on ourselves rather than the boat so if we lose the boat we can signal and call for help?
Just day paddling I have little in/on the boat (spare paddle, hydration pack and maybe a snack). Other stuff is on/in PFD: Silly useless whistle, BCD knife and Radio live in PFD (need to check mini first aid kit). Well, before radio was stolen anyway...
5. Do most of us feel we dress for water temps rather than air temps in cold water situations and do we actually get in and stay there for 5 minutes to see if we have enough on?
"Most" of us? That covers widely varied conditions. My own waters it doesn't mater as water/air temps typically remain within 20 degrees of each other and I could survive for hours swimming naked in winter (assuming critters cooperate).
6. Do most of us carry spare paddles, rig them so they stay on in rough stuff, use a paddle leash, and can we access and stow them in rough stuff?
Again, what's with the "most"? Different people using different craft in different waters have different needs. Are you mistaking this for an open water sea kayaking board? I carry spares and can easily access them mid roll (as reaching them is the same upright or inverted anyway).
7. Do most of us have an extended paddle emergency roll up so we don't have to wet exit?
"Most" have no roll at all and rarely if ever practice other recovery methods, or even wet exits. I have a roll (or a few) - but see rolling (whatever method) as a basic skill and don't view a capsize as an emergency.
8. Do we tell our paddle mates if we have a physical or medical condition that might affect us and or them on a paddle?
My "condition", while not outwardly visible, is still obvious to all who have paddled with me. *L*
9. Do we feel it is important to get Wilderness Medical training to help ourselves and our pod mates on long, difficult, and or rough trips where definitive medical help is more than 4 hours away? Bring any first aid gear?
I don't know what "we" feel, as I have not been assimilated into the collective. I (like most) also haven't done any remote paddling (though I always remember that the ocean, even when warm and calm with populated sandy beaches nearby, is always a wilderness area). If doing back country/expedition stuff I'd certainly get my first aid training up to snuff.
10. On solo trips do we tell anyone our trip plan and when to call for help by a certain time if don't show?
Sometimes, but most trips I'm near shore in urban areas and help would be in hailing distance. Used to alway carry cell phone (off), or radio (mostly to be able to assist others). Rarely do now, until I replace my radio anyway...
11. Your favorite controversy is ___________________.
Not a very controversial sort of person really. Don't buy into it, or the BS that passes for it in paddling circles. What little there is is mostly based on ignorance and misinformation. One thing that does puzzle me though is what happened to common sense and reasoning things out? Seems a rare gift these days...
Personally speaking…
1. NA
2. No
3. NA
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. No
8. NA
9a. NA
9b. Yes
10 Yes
11. Is always about God
here is mine
1. I use a hand pump to empty out the last bit of water. In an assisted rescue most of the water is already out so it isn’t a huge concern. In a self-rescue (re-enter and roll) the kayak is full of water so I just pull the skirt on and paddle to safety. It is handy to practice paddling in surf with a cockpit full of water.
2. Not usually for me.
3. It depends on the conditions of the water more than the duration of the towing.
4. I keep stuff that would help in a dire emergency on me. Otherwise it stays with the boat, because I plan on staying with the boat.
5. I tend to over dress for water temps if immersion is possible and the risk/consequence is high.
6. Yes I use a spare paddle usually on the front. No to paddle leashes. You can always stow your spare in your cockpit after you use it.
7. Not sure what an ‘extended paddle emergency’ roll is, but I can roll a few different ways in very rough conditions.
8. I feel it is the courteous thing to do.
9. I usually bring first aid gear of varying degrees and I have a WFR certification.
10. Depends on the solo trip - does playing in the surf count?
11. I prefer to avoid controversy.
emergency roll if sick or injured
What I meant by an extended paddle roll is a roll you can use if sick or injured and still get back up without leaving the boat. One type is using the extended paddle, i.e., holding it at one end and sweeping it out, laying back and not needing to use much if any hip snap.
If seasick or cold water ear balance problem or shoulder injury a roll that does not require timing balance hip snap or as much effort maybe one you can do if running out of breath, exhausted, cold, etc.
Rolls for shoulder/arm/hand injury
For defense against that, rather than worry about timing and all that, I’d suggest one arm rolls like the butterfly/angel roll and shotgun/armpit roll - practiced on BOTH sides regularly (and done as part of a re-enter and roll too).
Useful options for normal stuff too, like if you have something in your other hand when you go over that you don’t want to lose, or just to do as another roll to have. The butterfly/angel is a lot of people’s preferred “go to” roll.
Beats trying to do a paddle float rescue one armed! Problem still remains though: Then what? If you’re shoulder (or arm, hand, whatever) is too messed up to roll, then paddling is likely to be just as much of a problem. It can be easier to swim one handed than paddle. Hope you’re near shore…
Rudder vs Skeg
That’s the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of kayak controversy. As I’m shopping and saving for a sea kayak this year it is a controversy I’m interested in.
It seems well designed boats like the F1 skin on frame need neither and are much simpler boats. One the other hand if you are sailing with a V sail or any other type of sail a rudder can be a great help in higher winds.
I think I’d rather have a rudder than a skeg, but the boats I can buy locally only come with a skeg.
Maybe I’ll have to make my own SOF to get what I want.
That’s a “standard roll” with a GP
I think it’s kind of funny that an extended-paddle layback roll is considered by some to be unusual or unorthodox, as it’s the easiest way to roll a kayak, That probably explains why it’s normal with a GP, as Greenland technique is all about function and minimizing stresses on the body. The same is true of the angel/butterfly roll referenced here.
Machiavellian approach
is mine to best exploit the conditions, the situational urgency, skills and tools at hand to drive decisions and actions correct for that moment. Or in the words of one of Clint Eastwood’s characters, “Improvise, adapt and overcome.” Acquire and develop skills over gear to include being highly proficient with your gear. I only find absolute statements about dynamic circumstances to be controversial.
exactly wonder why few know that
so true. i wonder why more folks are not aware of it. maybe like me got start in whitewater learned never to come up on rear deck too exposed not ready to blast forward.
but for the sea kayaker in a bigger longer heavier boat and less rocks passing under, at least in most conditions you are so right about this.
maybe less knowledge about GP stuff as well
When did you start paddling? Next
question, what symposiums have you been to?
Dogmaticus
while I use both paddles
and really like the standard greenland layback roll.
The combat go to roll for me is not an extended paddle roll when using a modern blade.
I find a storm roll is the go to.
And I do know what tideplay means. When using a modern blade. Extending the blade for a hail mary to avoid swimming has been a good thing that I gained from rolling experience with the traditional style paddle. I went out in surf with gloves on in winter with my white water paddle. I screwed up my indexing due to the hydraulics in the wave, I missed three regular rolls and then switched to an extended and came up.
It is a limitation of the modern blade to need indexing and is a very nice feature of the traditional paddle. Indexing is a non-issue.
There is a belief in whitewater circles
that coming up on the back deck somehow poses more risk. Eric Jackson neatly disposed of that myth.
Dogmaticus
i see what you mean
yes the storm roll is it form me also. What I was referring to is what kind of roll works for a paddler when they find themselves rushing to get up, their timing is off or they are very exhausted.
Jay Babina has a DVD on this he calls it First Roll. Yes, nothing more than a generic layback sweep roll holding onto the end of the euro or GP blade and using very little if any hip snap to come up.
Nothing fancy meant. Just great for any who want to roll and not have to exit the boat, kind of a fail safe roll to use if anxious, tired, etc.
armed forces approach
yeah, i like those verbs myself. big believer in them all.
#11
it ain’t a spray skirt ,tis called a spray DECK -too many homophobic schoolboys/girls.
Say what you mean
Do what you say
M