I’m looking to extend my paddling season into cooler weather. Been doing a lot of reading and research and decided that I’d be happier w/ a dry suit instead of a wet suit, but I don’t really want to spend > $700. I found this on clearance at REI: http://www.rei.com/outlet/product/796918 and ordered one. I understand that it’s a “semi-dry” suit and might leak a bit around the neck if fully immersed. In my one summer of paddling, we’ve been to small lakes and rocky rivers; I do OK on the lakes (haven’t tipped out yet), but I seem to take at least one dunking every river trip - but I’ve managed to keep my head above water on each dunking, so I wasn’t really concerned about the potential leaking around the neck.
Anyway, the suit came this week and I just tried it on. It fits well, but I just can’t handle the neck on the thing; I have a large neck and can’t stand tight shirts (I refuse to wear ties), and this long neoprene neck will be uncomfortable enough to keep me from wearing it.
So, I have an idea that I’d like some opinions of… How about separate paddling jacket and pants used as the primary protection against cold water worn over a 2 or 3 mm farmer john wetsuit to handle any leakage? The jacket and pants would help cut the wind as well.
TIA!
no…
…you’re looking to paddle in more extreme conditions, so you need a more extreme suit.
A semi-dry is the same thing as a semi-wet.
The semi-drys are great for people with allergies to the neck gaskets, but you’re almost certain to be disappointed.
Almost make sure it has a relief zipper.
How much is your life worth?
My standard answer to questions like yours.
A semi-dry can fail after a very short time in choppy water. They’re good for folks who paddle in the spring and fall close to shore (And I mean REAL close to shore), or in the warmer months on a cool evening or in the rain. That’s about it, IMO.
If you can’t handle a real neck gasket, go with a really good wetsuit and a paddling jacket. And not some wussy farmer john “paddling” wetsuit – a good one that covers your armpits and lower extremities, and is more than 3mm thick at your core. Personally, I hate wearing a wetsuit to paddle because it restricts my torso rotation, so I go right to the drysuit, which I find far more comfy. I even wear it on cool summer days/nights.
There are adequate wetsuits for what you want to do out there, but they’re not comfy (IMO) or cheap.
So once again, how much is your life worth? Be safe!
Not really
"So, I have an idea that I’d like some opinions of… How about separate paddling jacket and pants used as the primary protection against cold water worn over a 2 or 3 mm farmer john wetsuit to handle any leakage? The jacket and pants would help cut the wind as well."
A 2-peice doesn’t really address your problem. One or two peice, you’ll have to deal with the neck gasket issue. If the neck is not tight, the suit is not “dry”! Simple as that.
It’s perfectly fine to go with the wetsuit route. Though in pratice, most people find dry suit a lot more comfortable than wet suit. So you may want to investigate on a solution instead.
Some here would say you’re the perfect candidate to go with a latex neck gasket since it can be trim to fit. I have no personal experience so I can’t say either way.
dry suit
have you tried stretching the neck gusset by using a 2 liter bottle of pop through the neck and left for a day. This will stretch the gusset a bit so that it is not so tight. Obviously it needs to be tight enough to keep water out or you defeat the purpose of a dry suit. In addition you can cut the gusset down a bit but you have to do this a little at a time as cutting too much will result in the neck gusset having to be replaced.
For cold water a dry suit can’t be beat
drysuit
This forum is full of threads where paddlers want to extend their seasons but want to do it on the “cheap”. All sorts of clothing configurations are proposed. None will perform like a quality drysuit. I don’t understand the $$ argument for not getting a drysuit. By the time one of these second rate options is purchased you are no longer talking about a “>$700” expense. By the time you get done buying a quality wetsuit and jacket (or jacket and paddling bibs or whatever)you’ve probably spent 3 or 4 hundred bucks, maybe more. Now the actual cost of the drysuit(over what you just spent on the compromise) is only 300 or so bucks. You probably already own several thousand dollars worth or gear, and you are balking at spending, no- investing, a few hundred dollars that will greatly extend both your paddling season and comfort. Do youself a favor, forget the compromises and but a real drysuit. Get one with a latex neck gasket and you can trim it to fit very comfortably AND it will not leak. My drysuit is the single best piece of gear I own.
Neo Neck Seals…
... and semi-dry suits vary a lot.
We have two Kokatat Supernova suits we used for the past four years. The neck seals, a light neoprene, are very comfortable, but tend to leak a little when we're active in the water. While the SuperNovas are certainly a lot better than the wetsuits they replaced, I can't recommend them wholeheartedly. Besides the neck gasket replacement, done under the two-year warranty, the booties on mine started leaking on the seams a few months after the warranty ran out, and are now showing signs of delamination of the inner membrane. I expect better durability after just four well-cared-for seasons with light use. My wife's suit, to be fair, hasn't had any problems.
My wife's new Stohlquist B-Pod has a glide-skin type neck; the original one was just too tight when we purchased the suit, and Stohlquist, bless them, changed it out for a larger one at no cost beyond the postage to them (great customer service!). She now finds the seal very comfortable and watertight, and loves fit and feel of the suit.
I now use a Reed Chillcheater - great suit, IMHO. Again, the neck seal is glide-skin, and I find it comfortable and watertight. While we're certainly not heavy duty paddlers, the friend I bought my Chillcheater from sure is; he paddles Newfoundland coastal waters twelve months a year, ice floes and all, and rolls for the fun of it whenever he's out. He's still using his other Chillcheater.
If you're paddling reasonably close to shore and have a good roll and/or self-rescue skills, all three suits will, in my opinion, do the job of getting you out of cold water alive, reasonably warm, and dry.
BTW - don't forget your hands and your head - hands get numb and near useless very, very quickly, and submerging the unprotected head in cold water, besides the super-chilling effect, does weird, wonderful and very painful things to one's ears, sinuses and sense of balance. Good gloves and a thick diver's hood are at least as important as an absolutely watertight neck seal...
source for used Kokatat dry suits
I have not bought one myself yet but I understand, from all the various forums I’ve read and people I know who have them, that the Kokatats are the top of the line in function and form. I know a new one can run up to $1000 or more, but the Kayak Academy out in Seattle Washington is not only a dealer but they sell some of their used suits that they have rented for the courses they run.
http://www.kayakacademy.com (click through to the “store” and the “used equipment” page)
There are several on their website for sale now, in both men’s and women’s sizes, for substantially less than a new one (depending on condition and options). I am thinking of buying one myself from them. I’d rather buy high-quality used gear than have to settle for something less for the same price.
Their site also has the most comprehensive information I have ever found on dry suits and their features and how to select, fit and use one.
There are also several extended forum exchanges on the Greenland kayakers web site, www.qajaqusa.com, including one active right now, about dry suits.
source for used Kokatat dry suits
I have not bought one myself yet but I understand, from all the various forums I’ve read and people I know who have them, that the Kokatats are the top of the line in function and form. I know a new one can run up to $1000 or more, but the Kayak Academy out in Seattle Washington is not only a dealer but they sell some of their used suits that they have rented for the courses they run.
http://www.kayakacademy.com (click through to the “store” and the “used equipment” page)
There are several on their website for sale now, in both men’s and women’s sizes, for substantially less than a new one (depending on condition and options). I am thinking of buying one myself from them. I’d rather buy high-quality used gear than have to settle for something less for the same price.
Their site also has the most comprehensive information I have ever found on dry suits and their features and how to select, fit and use one.
There are also several extended forum exchanges on the Greenland kayakers web site, www.qajaqusa.com, including one active right now, about dry suits.
The add says that the drysuit has
Double seals with latex inner and Glide Skin adjustable neoprene outer materials. This sounds like it would be very dry having both materials to seal. The price is great if it seals well. If the neck seal is too tight you have some options. The latex or glideskin by itself should seal sufficiently if fitted properly. If things around your neck really bother you, you can always install Glideskin gaskets that are very comfortable, seal just as well as latex and can be repaired easily.
Semi-wet
Yes, I realized that “semi-dry” meant it would leak some; that was the point of wearing a thin wetsuit underneath. My thinking was that the wetsuit would do it’s “prevent heat transfer” thing with any water that gets into the drysuit.
Gloves, etc.
I got some gloves at the same time I ordered the semi-dry and wetsuit. Still looking at options for head coverings. Per my OP, I’ve managed to keep my head above water in all of my dunkings so far, so the head covering was a bit of a lower priority.
I do know that I need something - not only will my head go under sooner or later, but those fall winds can frigidize uncovered ears even when they’re dry!
Modifying the neck
I don’t want to mess with the neck on this suit too much since I can still return it… Not only is the neck tight, it’s looong! If I extend it fully, it’ll cover my nose! I realize that a long tight neck will seal better than a short tight neck, but this one would drive me nuts even if it were loose - I can’t stand to wear loose turtle necks.
KayakAcademy
Thanks - I’ll check them out!
Ditto
Purchasing a drysuit was one of those buys for me where money wasn’t really taken into account. That was underscored when even my notoriously-cheap wife urged me to go ahead and get whatever I wanted :).
It’s about a lot more than comfort. And regardless of weather conditions, offshore or on a small lake, cold water is cold water. Period. You can die just as quickly in a local stream as you can in the Bering Sea. Rescue times and the proximity of others certainly play a role, but I prefer not to push that envelope at all.
As far as what to get - IMO, get whatever one fits you the best, as long as it has a breathable membrane (gore-tex or similar), watertight gaskets, a relief zipper, and built-in booties.
Double seals
Yes, it does have double seals. The packaging doesn’t call it a “semi-drysuit” - it calls it a “surface immersion suit.” Of course, it’s British, so there may be “translation” issues!
The ankles and wrists have velcro adjustment strips, but the neck does not. I assume that the outer adjustable seals would leak some, but the internal seals seem to be pretty tight and would probably not leak unless water was forced into them.
I think this suit would work really well for anyone who can stand the long, tight neck. The neck doesn’t seem to be made to be trimmed (the top is hemmed).
The glideskin outer “seals”…
…are not really seals, but covers to protect the latex seals from UV and physical damage. That’s common on better quality dry suits.
Dry suit for cold water
Better safe than sorry, for water under 60 degrees. If you are going out on serious and cold water, get a top of the line drysuit. They are super comfortable in a broad range of air temps if you burp all the air out. Here in the Pacific NW, going out on the ocean or Puget Sound or Johnstone Strait or south Strait of Georgia not using a real dry suit in any month can be your final mistake.
Earlier this month, after my equipment broke, I had to do some extended swimming in the 55 degree ocean (maybe the surf was too big). My Kokatat Meridian with fleece pants and shirt underneath, with a full neoprene hood, kept this from being life threatening. So, I did drop my thousand bucks on the suit, but I can chaulk up my swim session to experience.
After reading the replies
(yours and those of others) I don’t think you are going to be able to extend your paddling season with a drysuit since you have repeatedly aluded to the fact that you can’t tolerate a snug or tight neck. To be effective , drysuits must be snug in the neck, wrist (and ankles if boties aren’t attached.)
Either “cowboy up” and get used to a snug neck gasket or put your boat away when the water gets cold.
If the long neck seal that is hemmed
over at the top is neoprene with Glideskin on the inside it can be trimmed down without using a hem. Neoprene that has nylon on one side and glideskin on the other won’t unravel if it is cut and left unhemmed. When manufacturers hem over the top of a neoprene gasket they have greatly reduced it’s stretching ability and it’s comfort. By trimming off the hemmed top of the gasket, it will allow the gasket to stretch much more and be much more comfortable. Neoprene gasket’s can seal just as well as latex and can be much more comfortable if made properly.