I had a Kokatat Supernova semi-dry suit about 5+ years ago for rafting but rarely used it and sold it. Now that I’m paddling a SOT kayak I decided to try another semi-dry suit. I used some Christmas money and took advantage of a 20% off sale with free shipping. The Kokatat Surge semi-dry paddling suit arrived today. Looks great & seems to fit nicely. As I have posted in another thread, I’m a plus sized paddling gal who isn’t overly tall, so I appreciate that Kokatat makes drysuits in a Womens XL short sizing. I can see that getting used to the Switch Zip will take a little practice, but it seems night & day better than the giant butt zipper I had in the Supernova. Plus the overall appearance of the suit is way more attractive without that big butt zipper. The suit came with a tube of Zip Tech zipper lube. The adjustable neo neck seems more user friendly than the punch thru neo neck on the Supernova. The suit has a lot of adjustment shock cords , and a zippered sleeve pocket that’s handy.
Questions…
How do you eliminate the excess air in the suit, mainly in the socks? I suppose starting with the pants on and loose, putting feet in shoes, working air upwards, cinching ankles, then cinching pants & zipping into the top? I did a test try on of the suit and that method worked ok, but I still seemed to have extra air in the socks which made putting on my shoes difficult.
That brings me to the next question…shoes. I’m used to Keen river sandals & socks (either thin fin socks when warm or Seal Skins when cold). My feet fit fairly well in the Keens with a Smartwool sock under the dry suit socks, but not super well. I’m wondering what other paddlers wear for shoes that might be easier to put on and more protective of the dry suit socks?
Thanks in advance for helping out a “born again” drysuit novice.
You could put on the pants, sit on a chair and put on your shoes before you pull the pants up to your waist. I have the Radius but don’t have any issue with air in the socks. While there is some air buildup in the suit once I don the top and connect it to the pants, it’s much less than what I experienced when I demoed the one-piece Kokatat Expedition for a week.
Maybe your current shoes are too small for that extra material? I purchased a pair of Astral Brewess shoes a size larger than I normally wear to accommodate the Goretex drysock and my thick base layer socks.
The advice I got here about drysuit socks was to always make sure you stand on a towel or protective material when taking off your shoes, to protect the socks. It was good advice that I follow religiously.
I use Zip Tech every time I wear the suit as lubing the start area makes it easier for me to get the zipper properly aligned on the first try. Then it’s easy-peasy.
Simplest way to remove air from the drysuit is to suit up, squat down while holding the neck gasket slightly open to let the air out. (Note: You do not want to let all the air out as you need some in there for insulation. )
This method may or may not be the best for getting air out of the socks, though. For that, the other method is to suit up and wade into the water, up to your waist or so, while holding the neck gasket open. The water pressure will force air out. Again, you don’t want to eliminate all the air, If the suit is tight against your body, the water will chill you faster if you take a swim.
In cold weather, most paddlers probably prefer a wet shoe or a taller boot rather than sandals for the extra insulation they provide. Go to the NRS site or others and look for boots that are a foot tall or so. If you’re careful, they’ll keep water out when launching. There are also taller boots that extend up close to your knees, which will definitely keep water out.
I should have mentioned – when buying wet shoes or boots to go over the wetsuit’s feet, you’ll probably need to buy at least one size up from whatever size would fit you under normal circumstances, maybe two sizes. I have a pair of 10s for warm water use and a pair of 11s for the drysuit (and I probably should have gotten 12s).
Burping the suit - with suit on and zip closed/sealed, walk into the water, pull on the neck gasket to vent. Results might feel like you’ve turned yourself into a food saver bag.
I tried “burping” the suit by squatting with the neck open, but that did nothing for the feet. I think the problem is that the Surge suit with the Switch Zip had a waist seal of sorts with a shock cord cinch. I think that traps air in the pants. I guess I need to “burp” the pants, then zip the suit together and burp the top as Marshall described in the water. I do have fishing waders that suck down to my legs in the water, but they seem to self burp pretty easily even with a wading belt on.
I’ll have to look for some enclosed water shoes to wear when I use the suit instead of the Keen sandals. maybe something that laces up a little higher on my foot. We often stop for short hikes when paddling in desert canyon country, so I’d like a sturdy shoe as opposed to a wet shoe bootie type.
Shoes that provide some support, more enclosed, uber-grippy - sounds like Astral Brewess’. As previously posted, I’m biased towards the brand. Want some 2016’s?
I’ll look at the Astrals. Seems like I tried some on once and didn’t like the negative heel thing. Do they still have that design? The NRS Vibe or Crush also look good.
http://www.rutabaga.com/nrs-sasquatch-water-shoe
these have a little extra volume in the toe area. Put them on before you cinch everything down and they squeeze the air out of the socks.
Best Wishes
Roy
I’ve seen them advertised as neutral heel, natural balance, rocketed toe, and zero drop. Whatever you call it, the heel felt lower than the toe and I didn’t find it comfortable.
Got a heads up over on Mountainbuzz that Five Ten has a new river sneaker - The Eddy. $100. I could get the NRS for 15% off, so about $63. I’m waiting for feedback on sizing and toe box roominess. I’m not a fan of scrunched toes. The Astral Brewers had a nice toe box and I was bummed when I tried them on. But I remember it as an instant “nope.”
As said, the emptying air is called burping. Squatting down, hugging your chest, and opening neck is one way. As is walking into water and opening neck.
For shoes, I use a variety. Sometimes cheap water shoes, sometime water shoes with laces, sometimes more adventurous shoes like the Five10 Water Tennies. If I am in more aggressive conditions (surfing, rock gardening) where water motion could get shoes to get sucked off, I need shoes that are tied on. Lost a lot of cheap water shoes until I figured this out. In general, you need a size larger than you normally wear, and some way to adjust them, as you may have different layers of socks on under the dry suit booties.
you don’t want to be like you’re vacuum packed by walking in water to you chest. As stated above it is insulation like a thermos. You don’t want to much air where you float like a tire tube either.
I have the NRS Crush water shoes - they are OK, but I am not big fan of the laces. In the winter I prefer neoprene paddling shoes - I just find them warmer, and less likely to come off. You do need to buy a size bigger.
I’ve only had an issue with air collecting around the feet once. It was after a nature-break toward the end of a trip and I didn’t get the suit burped out properly. Air in the lower half of the suit kept my feet up near the surface, but made it a little more difficult to swim. I’m more careful about that now.
Confession time…I didn’t like the Surge paddling suit and I’ve returned it. Fantastic suit that’s well made by Kokatat and the size was good, but I just didn’t groove with the Switch Zip at the waist. I tried it on several times, put on my PFD, and sat in my kayak. Now remember, I’m a plus sized gal who already has plenty of God given “stuff” going on at my hips & waist. Add in the big Switch Zip, plus 2 shock cord/cord locks at the waist (inside & outside), plus a third shock cord/cord lock on the hem of the jacket part of the suit, and that’s a lot of extra stuff around the waist area. It just didn’t feel comfortable.
I’ve decided to stick with the Super Nova paddling suit instead. I had one 6 years ago and I liked it ok, except for the big butt zipper. I talked with Kokatat and they told me that they switched from the stiffer metal toothed zipper to the nylon more flexible & lower profile zipper 5 years ago. I wish they made this suit in Gore tex, but they don’t. They just started making the Super Nova Angler in Gore Tex for 2017, but only in men’s sizes. Even the Large-King would be too big for me, and its not one of the suits they will customize. I talked to my friends at Kayak Academy (super people) and they have lots of experience with the Kokatat suits & sizes. They also advised that the Large-King would be way too big & I wouldn’t be happy with it. So a Woman’s Tropos Super Nova it is.
Now for the shoes. I decided to give the Astrals one more try. It’s been awhile since I tried one on, and they get such high praise from folks. I found the Astral Aquanaut on sale & ordered one size larger in a men’s shoe to give me plenty of foot room.
Once the new paddle suit & shoes arrive I’ll report back. Thanks to Marshall for encouraging me to give the Astral shoes another look.
You probably got a deal on the Aquanauts as they are being sunseted with the new Junction and Trek models are taking its place. If you like them, grab another pair as you’ll get good comfy utility out of them terrestrially as well.
BTW I just got the Trek model when I was at Astral HQ picking up some Blue Jackets. Way comfy, grippy good looking light trail shoe.
I saw another Astral recently that looked almost identical to the Aquanaut but had a different name & different colors. Same sole. I can’t remember where I saw it. It wasn’t the Trek or the Junction. The Trek & Junction look like they have the same sole as the Aquanaut, but their overall design is different. I think I’ll see how I like them before getting a second pair.
Thanks for encouraging me to give the Astrals a try. They are really light & have good toe room. With the dry suit sock & a Smartwool sock they fit well. I updated about the dry suit on another thread. I’m much happier with the Super Nova suit. I sure wish they made it in Gore Tex. They weren’t willing to customize the Men’s Super Nova Angler in Goretex to the Womens XLshort sizing. They only customize certain suits in their line, not all of them.
Leave the waist part as loose as possible while putting on the shoes. Worst that happens is another paddler walking by knows the color of your thermal layer, if you do that part sitting sideways in the seat of the car like I do. Then, because you are correct that this suit operates differently than the one piece, get your knees sucked into your chest and squeeze BEFORE putting on the top part. Obviously best if this is down in a squat on the ground since that sends air up. But if the waether is inclement enough that being unprotected on the top is a problem, do the best you can.
I echo the advice about buying a bigger shoe size for use with dry suit socks. Two sizes up is not too much for me, though I usually go 1 and a half if I can.