A friend has asked me for advice on which dry suit he should choose. He has access to good pricing on Kokatat, NRS and Stohlquist. I know that there are other brands, however, he will choose one of these three. I have always chosen Kokatat and have zero experience with other brands or their proprietary waterproof/breathable fabrics. I’m pretty sure that he is looking at the Kokatat Meridian and I would like your advice on similar models by NRS and Stohlquist. Lets say thatthe suits we are considering are one piece, chest zip, the gaskets will be latex, the socks will be fabric, there will be a relief zipper and covers over the zippers are desired but not deal breakers.
Without getting into a discussion on whether this feature or that feature is desirable or needed or whether he should be looking at other manufacturers can folks provide their advice on fabrics and personal experience on suit performance between these three brands regarding suits with features similar to the Meridian? Cost is not a primary consideration.
I’m with you on not being that experienced outside of Kokatat. That said, if there isn’t a significant discount on the others, I’d recommending going for the Kokatat. Goretex and a pretty strong warranty.
Whether cost is a primary consideration or not I would probably steer your friend away from a fully dry suit and go with a semi dry suit unless he was seriously planning some hardcore, ultimate winter paddling and planning on spending serious time in the water.
The semi dry suit costs 25-50% of what a full dry suit, has 5% of the maintenance and upkeep, 10% of the parts to break and affords about 80% of the protection. The neck can leak a little water from a splash here and there but that’s it. The only gaskets to worry about are the wrist seals, and you have to use water shoes to keep the neoprene “feet” or ‘socks’ from getting perforated as you walk around.
It’s a great first step in seeing if you really want to don something that keeps you dry because there are costs that are not financial like having to receive training, adhering to a maintenance schedule with the gaskets, importance of burping and potential for failure of them. The semi dry suit is E-Z, peasy lemon squeezy, just put it on like a snowsuit. Takes 15-20 seconds to don and close all the zippers. I put talcum powder and paper tissues in the wrist gaskets when I keep it stored for winter. I grease the zippers at the beginning and end of the season. Gaskets need to be changed about every 2 years. That’s it. So I would say even at parity of cost having used a semi dry suit for this entire season I would be much more attracted to this just for the ease.
And, even if your friend is extremely wealthy and can afford to buy a fully dry suit without breaking a sweat, it always feels nice to get your feet wet in something easy and approachable. Odds are they will be so happy (and warm) with the semi-dry suit they will never venture past the semi dry suit stage into full dry suit with all the ongoing aggravations because for kayaking you really don’t need a fully dry suit unless maybe you’re way up north, even then it’s debatable.
The other reason I say this is people with a lot of disposable income usually work hard at demanding jobs. They might actually have the money partially from a high paying job with long hours, and partially because they don’t have time to spend their money! In the end time to the wealthy is the most precious commodity and the semi dry suit is a huge savings in a way that isn’t necessarily money being the object. I love mine, after a whole season using it would never consider fully dry suit which poses so many more challenges and possibilities of failure and wouldn’t give me any more protection than I need vs a semi dry suit.
CA139
Paddling with more serious skills like rolling means a full out dry suit. You would be unfamiliar with this aspect of paddling. I suspect Jon and company live there.
I can’t help w knowledge of the non kokatat suits. I can posit one point about their GoreTex suits. As an original purchaser one of my dry suits has become 3 now due to how kokatat enforces the GoreTex warranty. I will be sending in my GoreTex zip switch suit next month, and am not going to be surprised if l get at least a new bottom out of it. I don’t think the warranty for non GoreTex suits is as robust.
An important factor to consider given the conditions you paddle in, Jon: GoreTex.
Neither NRS nor Stohlquest use GoreTex in their dry suits. I tried on a non-GoreTex suit when I was dry suit shopping. I could feel the wind through the suit just standing outdoors.
As I went with a Kokatat GoreTex drysuit, I have no experience with the NRS or Stohlquest customer service. Koktat’s is excellent.
Even if there is a price difference, I think the Kokatat Meridian GoreTex suit is the safest bet for your friend.
Thanks a lot for your input. Admittedly I know only GoreTex and cannot speak of any experience with other materials. As you pointed out semi-dry is a non-starter. I look at the test results and they don’t mean a thing to me. In the field I try to control what I can control and go with what hasn’t failed me in the past. My experience is self-limited and incomplete. If other materials are as good as GoreTex my friend is all ears. He is watching responses and I’m sure he appreciates your expert advice.
@Celia said:
CA139
Paddling with more serious skills like rolling means a full out dry suit. You would be unfamiliar with this aspect of paddling. I suspect Jon and company live there.
I can’t help w knowledge of the non kokatat suits. I can posit one point about their GoreTex suits. As an original purchaser one of my dry suits has become 3 now due to how kokatat enforces the GoreTex warranty. I will be sending in my GoreTex zip switch suit next month, and am not going to be surprised if l get at least a new bottom out of it. I don’t think the warranty for non GoreTex suits is as robust.
Hello Celia, I thought of that already and half predicted you might post as much! Here is the thing: you can still get “dry” headgear as well and the overall package is still less work and maintenance, as well as risking less failure if you’re not up to maintaining it. Especially if money is not an object for OP’s friend it may be beneficial to start out that way and see if he really likes it. Not everyone likes a dry suit. It’s hot, it’s stuffy. It’s steamy. You can’t scratch an itch very well, and although OP mentioned “He” if you’re female you’re going to be hard pressed to… relieve yourself. Or so my wife says now that she has one too for the fall. These are all little things that can drive you nuts and make even someone with a lot of disposable income regret dropping $1000 to $2000 on something they end up not liking.
Now me I am particular and I have very unique needs so I can afford not to care about this crap (and I am a man with pee equipment more consistent with relieving myself wearing a dry suit). I love it because it allows me to wear my insulin pump with aplomb and not worry about getting it wet and breaking it so I don’t have to disconnect it when I paddle. And blood sugar control is so important to me I would consider insulin more vital to survival than food or shelter or temperature or even water, it’s the second most important ingredient in my life after air. However not everyone is in that situation willing to put up with its idiosyncrasies and a good semi dry suit is a much lower level of overall cost and commitment, not just money. Kind of like going go Karting for a season to see if driving on the track appeals to you before you buy a full on race car.
I don’t know where you are getting those prices from. A Goretex suit with full warranty on sale can be found for a bit under $1000, a dry suit that is of a different material than Goretex comes in at a lot less. I prefer the Goretex since I find myself exercising the warranty. I expect that the friend he is asking for is able to make an appropriate decision, both for his needs and his pocketbook.
Rookie provided a link above to see where Jon and friends paddle. It appears you didn’t take a look. You should.
You would not realize this because you haven’t spend time doing wet work. But the only thing that stays reliably dry when you do wet work is full out dry suit or the Kokatat bib system. Anything else has its limits that are a risk in 55 degree water. I went thru the semi dry stuff myself at first, they were too semi for Maine waters.
The relief issue for women - any serious women paddlers I knew were able to manage with a drop seat or like myself preferred a dropped Pzip. I know of one woman who was not a serious sea kayaker who was only going to be able to operate with a dropped seat. Again this is a matter of your not interacting with sea kayakers, this has been a solvable issue for a long time.
The zip switch suits that Kokatat has now, with the zipper around the middle so the halves can be worn as separates, is a total game changer in that area. Those suits come in both GoreTex and Kokatat’s proprietary material.
I don’t know where you are getting those prices from. A Goretex suit with full warranty on sale can be found for a bit under $1000, a dry suit that is of a different material than Goretex comes in at a lot less. I prefer the Goretex since I find myself exercising the warranty. I expect that the friend he is asking for is able to make an appropriate decision, both for his needs and his pocketbook.
Again, you would not realize this because you haven’t spend time doing wet work. But the only thing that stays reliably dry when you do wet work is full out dry suit or the Kokatat bib system. Anything else has its limits that are a risk in 55 degree water. I went thru the semi dry stuff myself at first, they were too semi for Maine waters.
Jon has posted here before, you would not know that, and is himself a serious paddler who plies colder waters offshore.
The relief issue for women - any serious women paddlers I knew were able to manage with a drop seat or like myself preferred a dropped Pzip. I know of one woman who was not a serious sea kayaker who was only going to be able to operate with a dropped seat. Again this is a matter of your not interacting with sea kayakers, this has been a solvable issue for a long time.
The zip switch suits that Kokatat has now, with the zipper around the middle so the halves can be worn as separates, is a total game changer in that area. Those suits come in both GoreTex and Kokatat’s proprietary material.
It’s all about commitment. Right now in my life I like easy stuff as it’s going to be a while before I can take on major commitments. There’s a lot of value and performance to be had from convenience. I’ve had to start living by the Pareto principle; kids and work will do that to you. Ever heard of the 80/20?
@CA139
You are hijacking this to have a personal discussion about your own priorities. And have posted incorrect material.
The OP was asking a serious question about experience with major manufacturers makes of dry suits. I would be happy to delete my distracting responses if you did as well.
Hi Jon,
I have direct experience with two of the three and my NRS rep would love for me to switch to their product but I’ll let someone else’s expertise weigh in there.
Kokatat - lots has been said so I won’t go into models, sizing, customization or warranty here.
Two styles of suits available;
Drysuit = latex neck gasket. Use if possibility of OBE is higher (that’s Out of Boat Experience not Out of Body…). Take remote expeditioning, surf play or whitewater as examples.
Paddling Suit = neoprene neck gasket. A drysuit in all but the neck gasket being less aggressive for greater comfort but not as resistant to the push of water pressure. Very good option for touring, fishing or other scenarios where the OBE is an occasional accident or more the concern of overall protection while exposed, or immersed like in launching/landing.
Stohlquist - the Amp model is a drysuit with neoprene neck gasket. The Ez (originally B-Pod) is a bit more than a Paddling Suit using a mock-turtleneck of smooth skin neoprene. Stohlquist material breaths extremely well. Sizing is a bit more athletic cut. Material isn’t quite as durable for the long haul (many years) as Kokatat. No customization available. EZ neck gasket is a factory repair, not dealer repair.
My first drysuit was a Stohlquist Goretex one, bought in early 2003 when they still made Goretex suits. The suit itself was waterproof and breathable and all the rest of the expected good stuff. But years later when I wanted a repair done (tear from a sharp object), Stohlquist was not handling work on their (formerly made) Goretex products. They referred me to Rainy Pass, a WA company that does a lot of Goretex repairs. I found a local-to-me company that was an authorized Goretex repair shop instead.
More years later, some of the suit’s seams began fraying or pulling loose, and other places began delaminating. I bought a new Goretex suit in 2010—a Kokatat Meridian. Personally, I would stick with Ktat because they have been such a longstanding, stalwart manufacturer who also support a surprisingly large number of expedition paddlers. Any price difference between them and other companies is irrelevant years down the line, and they back their products.
I will also add the same kudos to Werner Paddles. Big thumbs-up to both companies!
I bought a Stohlquist Amp a couple of months ago. Noticing a small manufacturing defect, I contacted Stohlquist and they sent me a new one. Great customer service.
I wore the amp for the first time a couple of weekends ago while at the Nantahala Outdoor center and took a couple of swims while wearing it. Kept me nice and dry.
I am very happy with the Amp and have no problem recommending it.
@VACaver said:
I bought a Stohlquist Amp a couple of months ago. Noticing a small manufacturing defect, I contacted Stohlquist and they sent me a new one. Great customer service.
I wore the amp for the first time a couple of weekends ago while at the Nantahala Outdoor center and took a couple of swims while wearing it. Kept me nice and dry.
I am very happy with the Amp and have no problem recommending it.
What can you tell us about the neck seal on your Amp. It is described as “Duraseal”. In their video it appears to be a latex gasket with a neoprene sleeve over it similar to the Meridian. What is a Duraseal neck gasket?
@VACaver said:
I bought a Stohlquist Amp a couple of months ago. Noticing a small manufacturing defect, I contacted Stohlquist and they sent me a new one. Great customer service.
I wore the amp for the first time a couple of weekends ago while at the Nantahala Outdoor center and took a couple of swims while wearing it. Kept me nice and dry.
I am very happy with the Amp and have no problem recommending it.
What can you tell us about the neck seal on your Amp. It is described as “Duraseal”. In their video it appears to be a latex gasket with a neoprene sleeve over it similar to the Meridian. What is a Duraseal neck gasket?
Kokatat Expedition suit I had 7-8 years. Was putting new gaskets in. Noticed piece of seam tape slightly lifting. The said send it in for evaluation. I figured they’d fix it. Call and sent me a new suit. My cost was shipping them the suit. Not bad for all the use. I guess I got practice putting in the gaskets. Go Kokatat.
I had an old Kokatat GFER with some seam tape delamination. Same as paddle dog, they replaced the suit for the cost of shipping.
The Kokatat Goretex warranty is very hard to beat. Almost guarantees you only buy the suit once. If cost is not a concern, there is no reason not to go with a Goretex Kokatat suit