Well as someone who’s been thinking they need a drysuit, I’ve got to say that the customer service of Kokatat has me thinking they are the way to go. Very best advertisement they can get is treating people right like I’m hearing.
The things aren’t cheap so knowing that the company absolutely stands behind the product is huge.
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Add me to the list…slight de-lamination
they sent me a brand new expedition. No charge… Good company.
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@roym said:
Add me to the list…slight de-lamination
they sent me a brand new expedition. No charge… Good company.
Yeah. Me too. I replaced one neck gasket on my first suit and sent it back to have them do the second one. They water tested it and found a delam I didn’t know about and sent me a new suit. I started sending them back to have gaskets replaced and water test done. They always found lots of pin prick holes and patched them for a song. I’ve had more than one suit replaced that way. Personally they have my business for life. Two of my paddling partners have both received new suits after sending theirs back for gaskets or water testing.
I wanted to offer my friend advice on all of the brands that he can get for heavily discounted prices. I would say that the community has spoken pretty loudly in favor of Kokatat.
Thanks everyone!
@Celia said:
@CA139
You are hijacking this to have a personal discussion about your own priorities. And have posted incorrect material.The OP was asking a serious question about experience with major manufacturers makes of dry suits. I would be happy to delete my distracting responses if you did as well.
Apologies Celia, not wishing to create any problems. Only posted my priorities to provide point of view for people to evaluate based on theirs. I think I was only wrong regarding the pee problem and I do appreciate the info as I did not know but I don’t think I am the only one who balks at the maintenance, cost and what can go wrong in a fully dry suit. The local shops around here only sell the semi dry suits and I bought mine at “year end/last year’s unsold model sale” for $390.
Again, a lot of people, including people into diving themselves like my wife’s family, prefer to shorten their season (or travel!) vs using a full on dry suit and recommend against them. Not that a dry suit is bad but the expense and commitment is significant.
The point I wanted to make is that a semi dry suit gives you a lot of the benefits for a cost and maintenance schedule that is only slightly more than a regular wet suit and represents perhaps one of the best values in immersion gear. While the OP’s friend may or may not be interested in stopping there I find this knowledge valuable as this is the season people start thinking about either putting away their boats or using immersion gear and I thought others who are entertaining this dilemma who would otherwise not wish to buy a dry suit find it helpful.
With full respect if you feel the most polite thing for me to do is delete my posts let me know and I will do so.
Not really sure what all this maintenance you are talking about is,{ca139} the only difference between a semi dry and a dry is the neck gasket.
and diving suits are completely different than paddling suits…I don’t think anything you have said is pertinent to the original poster, that had already set his criteria. Re read the original post…and see if even you think you answered anything that was asked.
Best Wishes
Roy
@CA139 said:
With full respect if you feel the most polite thing for me to do is delete my posts let me know and I will do so.
I can’t speak for Celia, but I feel that the best thing for you to do is: Develop some situational awareness.
You are a self-confessed no-capsizer. This is a thread where experienced kayakers, who spend a lot of their time under their kayak, discuss dry suits. Your situational awareness should tell you that this is not a thread where your experience or preferences will be of any use.
Sorry to be so hard on you, but I think you have got several soft hints in this thread, and your lengthy post shows that you still haven’t got the message.
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I know people love their Kokatat drysuits, but I have always had an NRS drysuit. I have had 3 in 15 years. When the zipper broke on the first suit after a couple of years, NRS sent me a new drysuit. When it happened again after about 10 years they told me it was no longer under warranty, so I bought a new one. These were the old metal zippers, not the plastic zippers on the suits now. I have never had a problem with the fabric or the gaskets. I’m an open boater so I don’t need the skirt channel around the waist. I have always had the NRS Extreme.
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Celia here -
My concern is for newer people who may be looking at this thread and could get distracted because they know as little about aspects of sea kayaking, like dry suits, as CA139 does. His comments hold a tremendous amount of incorrect information and that doesn’t help anyone. Winter is coming and Christmas is not so far off, I would posit that others may be following this thread.
It appears that the point is well made in this last round of posts, thanks all, so it is unlikely that anyone trying to make a serious decision about a dry suit for themselves will be misled by him. "Nuff done.
Eckilson -
Thanks for the input on the NRS suits. I looked hard at one some years ago, they had sizing that would leave me a little more room for lack of discipline on maintaining my weight. Having done extremely well with the Kokatat warranty and now being a fan of the zip switch design I will stay there. But I have had several of the NRS tops and really like the product line. In fact I have one that needs gaskets, if I find out I still can get into it (it is a w’s small) I will be sending somewhere for repair this winter.
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I am a mostly flatwater recreational and racing canoer. At risk of hijacking the thread, I have need to learn a lot about options and quality of various dry suits. As a SAR volunteer, I wanted to expand my skills by recently certifying in a training course provided (for free) by NY State as a swift water & flood rescuer. NY has constructed an up to 100,000 GPM swift water training facility. Dry suits were provided to students. I believe they were a lower level Kokatat model. Mine seemed to work very well, though the wrist and ankle gaskets were extremely tight and some students had swelling problems with that. I know that the instructors now have suits that cost upwards of $2k, but I don’t know the brand. I would like to purchase my own suit in the $1K range to join a state swift water rescue team, but need to learn a lot more about which one I should choose.
Here area couple of youtube videos of the training facility:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdZz80D4BAc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlF4P9Zx5uE
Hi. I know of a couple of folks who do the Swiftwater training locally, email me if you are in the Capital District around Albany and would like to know a name . The person am most thinking of is also a certed sea kayaker in the BCU system so uses his suit heavily. He gets Kokatat Goretex suits because he has made use of the warranty on Goretex. Note that Kokatat now insists you be the original purchaser of the suit for the warranty rather than picking one up used.
I suspect that those $2k suits are extremely specialized for Swiftwater rescue and are comparable to ones that you see specialty teams out of city fire departments using. I am sure they exist, but are likely most often obtained by someone who is such an employee and can get some price help or claim it as an expense. If you are not that person you won’t be beating it up as much as them.
But above posts are saying good things about the other warranties…
I am a fan of the Kokatat zip switch suits now because of the ability to use just the bottoms for an easy paddle where wet work is not heavily in play and it is warm.
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Unfortunately the thread was already hijacked by the third post. As to brand, the above posts by experienced paddlers who own a dry suit should give you a general idea. Latex wrist and neck gaskets can be trimmed, or sometimes stretched a bit although I’ve read that stretching weakens the latex. Dry suits with GoreTex booties have no ankle gaskets.
I’ve seen ocean racing dry suits in the $2,000 range but the most expensive dry suit Kokatat lists on its website is $1,300.
Given the specialized nature of your needs for SAR rescues, perhaps the SAR instructors may have good feedback.
Given the specialized nature of your needs for SAR rescues, perhaps the SAR instructors may have good feedback.
Unfortunately, state (government) employees are not allowed to promote any particular product by name as being “better” than any other. I teach land navigation at the same overall training facility and cannot officially promote my favorite compass model or instruction book.
Yknpdlr,
Does NYS rent that Pool? That could be potentially a lot of fun in a whitewater play boat!
Back to drysuits. Beyond the warranty info which testimonials will tell you a-plenty trying on the suits for fit is really the only way to go. I have some Kokatat remaining here at The River Connection as I suspect you’re in the region.
Jon, I know you’re not in the area but I’m sure there’s gotta be someplace relatively close to your friend that stocks suits for them to try on.
See you on the water,
Marshall Seddon
The River Connection, Inc.
9 W. Market St.
Hyde Park, NY. 12538
845-229-0595 main
845-242-4731 mobile
Main: www.the-river-connection.com
Store: www.the-river-connection.us
Facebook: fb.me/theriverconnection
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@yknpdlr said:
… Dry suits were provided to students. I believe they were a lower level Kokatat model. Mine seemed to work very well, though the wrist and ankle gaskets were extremely tight and some students had swelling problems with that. I know that the instructors now have suits that cost upwards of $2k, but I don’t know the brand. I would like to purchase my own suit in the $1K range to join a state swift water rescue team, but need to learn a lot more about which one I should choose.
First, ignoring brands, some basics you want to look for:
- don’t get one with ankle gaskets, but get one that has the built in booties. This is more the norm. You wear shoes over the socks to protect the dry suit socks from punctures. You wear regular socks (hiking socks of the like) under the dry suit socks for warmth.
- get a relief zip. For men, it is short horizontal zipper down at their crotch level. For women, it could be a big zipper that goes all around their butt or a lowered short men’s crotch zipper and they use a Female Urination Device (https://amzn.to/2OCAguA).
Neck gaskets are tight, but do loosen over time and some can be trimmed some to make looser. Downside to loosening is that it also reduces waterproofness. The state of shaving/unshaveness for men will affect comfort. Some people prefer to have neoprene necks over latex necks, but depending on neck shape, they may or may not be as waterproof as you need.
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I’ll add that if you get a drysuit with the fabric oversocks, make sure you size your booties to accommodate them. You’ll need to go up a size.
The lowered horizontal pee zip I got in my Meridian was a relief (pun) to use compared with not having a pee zip OR with stripping down in a wetsuit. I have two different FUDs. The all-silicone one that rolls up nice and small is much trickier to use than the plastic device with an attachable vinyl tube. Either way, practice in the bathroom before taking into the field.
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@Marshall said:
Yknpdlr,Does NYS rent that Pool? That could be potentially a lot of fun in a whitewater play boat!
No, absolutely not, not any more than they would rent out a firetruck for private use. Having said that, I am sure that anyone would pay hundreds of dollars for the fantastic four day training course ( it probably does cost the state that much per student). I was able to take the course due to my position as a certified land SAR first responder volunteer. Most students come from the firefighter ranks, although any legitimate first responder or law enforcement type of person can apply. All NYS Forest rangers included. We did used rubber rafts to paddle down the rapids in one training segment. The follow-on course with this as a prerequisite is using motor boats for rescue. I will take that one in the spring. This facility is the State Preparedness and Training Center (SPTC), operated by the NY Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Services.
Thanks everyone for the advice on drysuits. My friend has ordered a Kokatat Odyssey with up-sized socks.
Cheers
Jon
https://3meterswell.blogspot.com
@Chodups said:
Thanks everyone for the advice on drysuits. My friend has ordered a Kokatat Odyssey with up-sized socks.Cheers
Jon
https://3meterswell.blogspot.com
Great choice and a very nice looking suit. Wishing him many happy adventures paddling in it.
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@Rookie said:
Great choice and a very nice looking suit. Wishing him many happy adventures paddling in it.
I’ve known Tim since the '70’s. A stellar dude. He’s just getting into sea kayaking and wants to do it right. I am so looking forward to paddling with him. Think about it. A longtime friend just entering your world and not making the mistakes that you made.
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