I think you just answered your own question, by describing the business model that can succeed in the global economic environment that you have been helping, per your post, to promote.
Not good; not bad; but don't be suprised when your buying choices decline and knowledgeable sales staff disappear.
Lake Placid EMS: watched the evolutiuon of this store over the last decades - the pastel shirts and shorts and rec boats are nice.
I respectfully disagree country of origin has zero bearing on the knowledge base of a company’s sales force. Perhaps in a small outfit like Placid or Hemlock boatworks, you’ll find an owner/operator making and selling product but over that just doesn’t happen. I think that in a small shop like that there is a reason why their boats exceed $3k.
I don’t think my experience at EMS had anything to do with product made overseas, just that it distributes product that will make a profit.
EMS is geared to the mass market and they meet some of my basic needs. They do usually have knowledgeable sales staff.
Now as for specialized equipment they arent in that market. Its neither a plus nor a minus. If I am looking for a specialized canoe I cannot expect it at a mass market retailer. Of course I will go to Dan Cooke or Sue Audette or Tom MacKenzie or Charlie Wilson or the like…There are many local paddlesports craftsmen.
THe mass market is one thing but the independent USA/Canadian craftsman is very alive.
It's all about the global economy and price point and profit; and that's not naive; and that's not country of origen; that's business.
I spent my childhood in Asia; am an Asian language speaker courtesy of the U.S. military and the Defense Language Institute - Monterey, and the son of a professor of South East Asia Studies, who spent part of his childhood and military time in China and Japan. Therefore, I would not class myself as a member of "that segment of the naive" American public.
My point being: we as Americans can no longer expect to pay the "cheap" price and get the "expensive" goods. And a global business model will drive to extinction many small outdoor gear (and other) businesses where the owner or the sales staff actually use/have expert knowledge of what they are selling.
I'm not making a value judgement on this trend. But if we want something different, we as a society are going to have to pay the price.
What's in your boathouse, a Pungo, a Hemlock or a Placid Boatworks Rapid Fire?
Note: kayakmedic, this post is in response to datongdave, not you.
rebuttal hi all, i knew the china comment would stir things up…it’s about supporting the communist gov’t, not about buying overseas made stuff, which we have done for yrs. since we know how big business takes advantage of cheap/“slave " labor in other countries. 2nd …suz, i never seen kokata suits in any EMS stores in my area. jackets/yes…suits/no… i was recently in the lake placid, NY EMS store…they are remodeling. everything is on sale, all i saw was " made in china” stickers on most of the clothing and other items. USA $$$ supporting a communist run countries economy. we could argue this topic till we all have carpal tunnel. I’m just saying…i will not spend my $$ on communist china made goods unless i have no choice.
. I think that ultimately you and I believe the same thing regarding the American public in that there is an expectation of rock bottom prices and superior services. The point that I was trying to make is that the average man on the street that says he wants to avoid chinese products as not to support the communists generally has zero idea how many products they use daily are Chinese or Asian produced.
I think that the one correlation between a global economy and specialty paddling shops is that business is now based on economy of scale. It is debatable if this is a global issue, its more a scalibility problem. The small shop charges premium prices because it may have 5-12 boats in inventory while an REI or LL Bean may have 100. Margins are lower and wholesale prices are higher b/c they’re buying one or two boats at a time rather than 50. Most people, however, purchase boats from big box retailers b/c their prices are going to be more competitive, not b/c the service is better. Because they’re dealing in volume and generally to the beginning paddlers the breadth of knowledge of a big box retailer is going to broad but shallow. They will undercut boat prices and make up the difference in accessory sales.
I respect your credentials. I, too, speak multiple Asian languages, have the appropriate degrees, have lived extensively in the region and have launched joint ventures or wholly owned subsids for Fortune 500 companies in China, Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan.
As for my fleet of boats right now, I only have two: An Esquif Mistral and a Mad River Independence. And yes, I would love to own a Hemlock and a Placid boat.
The funny thing about China and the Chinese people is that 99% of the population are about as communist as you or I. Don’t judge an entire population based on its government. We don’t want to be judged by the rest of the world based on the actions of the Bush administration.
Take a trip to Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, etc and you’ll see just how capitalistic the country truly is.
my stable consists of seventeen canoes and kayaks.
I started mass market and moved on to non mass market AKA local craftsman. Yes I have Loon Works boats and PBW boats and some Swifts etc, Mohawks, Bells, Souris River blah blah.
But that Asian boat may well have fueled my love of paddling. Dont know…it was a rec kayak in 1989
I just ordered a Thule Rapid Aero roof rack from EMS.
Great customer service. I had to change something after placing the order and had to call them today at 8:00 am. They had to call Thule and called me back. Really nice person to deal with, kind of made my day.
Great sale. Great return policy.
They send shipping email, return sticker included in the invoice with simple return policy.
Beau-gest you must have one hell of time trying to buy all American. I think that would be nearly impossible to go all USA. Any computer, electronic device, camera, most pieces of equipment, clothing etc is made in China.
If it is not labelled so, most times only a small component is not and possibly just minor final assembly is done in USA.
I understand your sentiment but in these days buying non Chinese is practically impossible.
he must be in a union. which ironically is one of the main reasons manufacturing is dying in this country. no one deserves $40.00hr for spray painting a tape measure yellow on a assembaly line(true). isn’t a union a bit communist in princapal anyway? payed by time served not performance. i consider myself a Mass. liberal 95% of the time, but not on this one.
Guess I went a little postal as I mistakenly felt included in that “naive” segment of the American public.
And “yes”, as you have so well articulated in your last post, there some are in our country whose expectations are not congruent with the current world economic situation, nor appreciate the far greater changes that may come. I have enjoyed our “open, honest and frank exchage of views”.
A trip to Placid Boat Works would be worth the drive. And you might want to forego the horse drawn carriage ride through the touirst clogged streets of Lake Placid.
One thing to add They do tailor their stores individually to their clientele. There are two near me, and they are as different as the towns they’re located in.
The one in West Hartford is very yuppified. Mostly a clothing and car camping store last time I went in there (Which admittedly was several years ago - I avoid WH if I can). They’d go bust if they weren’t that way there.
The one in Manchester has tons of kayaks, and even some higher end paddling gear. They are also big on mountain biking & even sell components. I’ve bought a fair amount of good stuff at that store, including a great pair of store-brand hiking boots that I got on clearance for real cheap. Don;t get deals like that very often. I’d have gladly paid 2-3X what I paid for them & still thought I paid a fair price.
Anyway, they are all a bit more yuppie, but so is the general public.
Retail EMS and LL Bean all have their critics. I like the stores but serious outdoors folks feel these stores are retailers for the yuppified SUV owners that rarely go out into the wilderness. I have friends who feel that REI is a notch better. I just appreciate that these stores are arround and while perhaps marketing the Northface outwear more for the urban crowd than trail crowd, I can at least but a can of stove fuel or merino wool socks without having to go online.
Unions, while not always good, are here today because of the abuses of uncontrolled capitalism. When Henry Ford, hardly a friend of unions, was asked why he paid his workers so well. Ford immediately replied " … so that they can afford to buy my cars."
Personally, I’d vote for “capitalism with a human face” ala the Vaslav Havel model. Living on the Canadian border I can clearly see that the USA practices a more Dawinian form of capitalism as compared to Canada.
I will never forget that it was the results of social Darwinism, applied by the British with malice and forethought, that got my Irish ancestors to America in the first place.
Don’t get me wrong, I lead a safe and a very comfortable life. America has been good to be me and mine - and I would guess to you and yours. But what about all the people who have not been so fortunate?
The current batch of empowered, high flying capitalists might do well to remember Henry Ford’s words.
If it was just an hourly rate issue, I could deal with that. It is the sweetheart pension and health benes the unions demand that contributed to the crack in the system.
