Experience with Lendal Kenetic Wing???

-- Last Updated: May-27-09 6:36 AM EST --

I recently bought a Lendal Kenetic Wing Paddle (super deal so not out full price by far) after reading a number of message board reviews mostly from England, Scotland, and Wales by experienced sea kayakers who are definitely not into fads and who 9 out of 10 were very impressed with the paddle.

I know very few folks here in the states using it, but those who have, could you comment on its advantages, disadvantages?

I currently use a Werner Ikelos and was in search of a long distance paddle for coastal use that would more rugged than the Werner, and also be decent in bracing, rolling, etc. as well. Many of the Welsh, Scot, and Brit crowd felt it to be very good all around and rugged, and more efficient for longer travels.

was not too impressed with it
but I only used it for 8 miles in rather choppy conditions.

The owner loves it but he repeaatedly injures his shoulders.

His othe paddle is Lendal Nordkapp.

I usually apddle with a Cyprus (Werner) and find that the right resistance for a faster cadence.

I used to have an Ikelos but was not suited for long distance paddling; not for me.

The Kinetic wing grabs a lot of water. Too much actually. You can make your boat really move in a sprint but too tiring for long distance.

If I paddled with it for a couple of days I could give you a more accurete impression. It takes a bit of getting used to since it tends to flutter compared to a dihedral shaped paddle (like most Werners).

It is an interesting paddle
as a cross between a touring paddle and wing paddle it does both jobs well, but not as well as its ‘parent’ paddles.

It does catch a lot of water, but not as much as a wing. You will move faster, but not as fast as a wing. It handles well in rough water, but not as well as a standard blade (much better than a wing).

None of my paddles have ever had a problem with fluttering.

I’d like to try one…

– Last Updated: May-27-09 11:57 AM EST –

I'd like to try one for use as a travel paddle, where the paddling could take on various conditions. I paddle a mid wing normally.

jack of all trades?
I’m curious about this paddle also but wonder if it’s too much of a compromise.

master of none… NM

It’s NOT more durable than your Werner!
The Kinetic wing is foam cored and the edges are delicate. JOI after purchasing Lendal added a bit more edge bearing/bonding surface to help durability, but it’s still a delicate blade. Inherent with any 4-piece paddle is more complexity. The Lendal spigots have been a weak spot on some paddles secondary (I beleieve) to inadequate bonding in the spigot matrix due to expired pre-preg, or inadequate mandrel heat control. I think this issue got fixed, but…

The blade IS a compromise, as are all. It’s designed for the tourer who want’s greater forward power. So, as others have said, it’s more powerful than a touring blade, yet not as focused as a true wing. So, it works fine enough for rough water play etc.

Jon Turk, mega distance expeditioner found the Kinetic wing added efficiency to his progress and liked it.

Consider the Kinetic S wing for distance touring.

Me: Sold mine. Liked it fine, but prefer the Kinetic tour.

thanks very helpful
Thanks Salty, extremely helpful, just what I was wanting to understand and know!!! Massively good!

I think you’ll enjoy it
If you do distance work you may find it useful as well as having a bit more sprinting power to catch swells etc, yet still have a decent control stroke manners.

In terms of build quality the Lendal process is archaic compared to Werner’s, albeit just fine overall. Sort of like some of the Brit boats…

I’ve not seen an ONNO up close but in photo’s they look superb. Werner does a terrific job! Like Epic’s as well.

anyone else make a comparable paddle?
By this, I mean a hybrid touring/wing paddle?

I know what you mean however
"some" manufacturers of British boats make no excuse for they crude lay up saying that it’s for a reason.

Chopped stand is heavy as ferrous cement but probably the best lay up for expedition (intended use).

Holing a chopped strand lay up is much less damaging (less propagation of delamination) than a cloth lay up.

While substantially lighter some fancy new layups are rather non living up to the expectations.

It took nothing less than 3 goes to get finally a half decent kayak from a well known Canadian manufacturer. All under warranty but in the end I settled for a more conventional lay up of carbon/Kevlar instead of foam core.

On the other hand one of my Chinese kayaks is a real work of art: light, stiff and strong (finish is a bit dodgy though, but expected).

Respectfully disagree gnarly
I do not believe chopped strand to be a superior expedition choice. Not by a long shot. I also believe Kevlar is highly over-rated in kayaks. What I will support is the notion that some of the crude Brit boats are actually damn durable and easy to fix! I’ve owned a few…

But, modern materials and processes will produce a lighter kayak that will endure more abuse. (If executed well!)

I agree that some of the US and Canadian guys got some parts great but screwed up in assembly etc. You can have the toughest matrix out there for deck and hull, but if you botch the seam or bulkheads etc, you’ve shit the bed.

Composites have to be done with attention to detail. Latest Cobra built boats out of Thailand are insanely tough epoxy post cured lay-ups.

In closing, i’d rather have a crude NDK that I can fix over and over and is tough, than some flimsy, poorly infused, dry and brittle, whiz bang gig built by folk who don’t care.

I think we’re aligned for the most part.

There’s BS on both sides of the equation.

I do, sort of, but in wood…
… and likely too weird/different for most.

Sort of an Aleut/GP/Wing hybrid made for wing stroke/hand spacing, with narrower parallel edge blades that are symmetrically spooned on power face and diamond ridged on other (for other uses).

Result is softer catch and bite which is easier on body - with some expected trade-off in raw power (more like smaller wings powerwise). Makes it good for distance, or for use with boats a class or two under real racers, or for paddlers who sort of fit same description but like to consistently cruise above typical group paces. Also a bit less demanding of spot on technique and can do EP/Aleut/GP forward strokes too for variety (losing some efficiency over wing stroke with this paddle, but decent enough) which can come in handy, but can also let you get sloppy (too sloppy though and you will “catch a crab” like with wing).

Sculls, draws, rudders and such work well with it, and easy to roll with either face.

Originally a thought experiment, essentially mixing what I’d learned from Aleuts with wing stroke mechanics, that works better than I’d hoped. Currently my favorite paddle. Only a few in existence as they’re a PITA to carve, need wider wood than GPs/Aleuts, and are new/unknown/experimental so no existing demand [AKA “market of one”, well a few, and maybe as many as 12 eventually… L] so I don’t actively promote/push them).

salty, not much
disagreement in your comments. I seem to follow your line of thoughts and what you said makes a lot of sense to me.

SKUK (NDK) says that his standard lay up ain’t light but easy to fix, as you have found out.

Some composites on the other hand might look fantastic and have great potential but just don’t perform. My Canadian cored hull deformed badly in the heat by just laying on the beach. Apparently the epoxy could not take the Australian summer (32C degrees, but I thought Canada has some serious temps too, in summer?..). The finish was a clear coat over carbon/Kevlar matrix that unfortunately abraded so quickly. Funny enough my Chinese kayak looks almost the same but is totally different in stiffness (no deform in heat)and clear coat very tough.

Still core contruction, just different resins and curing technique. So much for Chinese being known to manufacture bad stuff. Obviously not always.

Putting a hole in that boat would be hard however repairing would be way more complicated than your NDK.

now that sounds interesting
Sounds like a stronger (hate using the word “faster”) than euro paddle with few of the drawbacks of a euro.

tell us some more S and G
nice nice illuminating discussion. you both have allot of both technical and real world knowledge. Seems to me you both mostly agree in your own ways.

I have often wondered about the NDK use of materials. I drilled an outlet hole in my Explorer and was amazed at the material, yikes!

So, what do each of you guys think is the best balance of strength, resistance to holing and breakage and ease of repair? This might be another thread!!!

My brief encounter wtih Lendal Wing
Well, compromise is sometimes the best solution :wink: Much like “do it all” kayaks - may be the best thing for some.

Back to topic - had a chance to briefly test the Lendal Kinetic Wing last year. Briefly in flat water. And add to that it was when I did not know much about wings or paddling anyway. However, some of the observations should be valid regardless as they simply relate to the physical properties of the paddles testes.

A fellow paddler and I tested 3 wings and swapped our boats a few times in the process for about 3 hours. Lendal Kinetic Wing in carbon on a bent shaft, Epic Mid Wing in Hybrid Sygnature, and a $100 eBay wing with plastic blades.

Lendal: very buoyant with these voluminous blades (comparable to a GP, I’d say), less catch than the other two wings, heavier swing weight than the Epic, heavier feel overall, smoother release (this last one is subjective, since my technique was not up to it at the time).

eBay paddle: most powerful of the bunch during all phases, more twist than the others so more “wing” action, a little on the heavy side and not the most durable ferule construction it seemed.

Epic: lightest, good compromise in terms of power, good construction.

I’d love to try the Lendal Wing again to see if it can “play”, but I do not like their bent shafts (personal feel) and since I moved on to a GP I do not see the need for a “compromise” paddle. I have the GP for play/bad weather/long distance, got a wing for when I want to go mostly straight and fast, WW for … white water -:wink:

On a separate note, I did like the Kinetic Tour when I had a chance to use one for several weeks (straight shaft), but overall preferred the AT Xception SL bent shaft touring I had at the time.

Werner’s Cyprus (for high angle) and Kalliste (for low angle) are excellent paddles too for longer distances - light, buoyant, well made, great feel in the water.

To tideplay - tell us your impressions!
You got the L. wing - tell us what you think about it based on using it -:wink:

Well, it works nicely anyway

– Last Updated: May-29-09 1:22 PM EST –

I suppose it could be seen just as much a roundabout reinvention/reinterpretation of semi symmetrical euro combining spooned power face and narrower blades (one of mine is even a 2 piece), though just that would be a bit of a handful, whereas this is very smooth, flies a bit more, and stows easy like GP...

Couple other details: Taper is all on one side like Aleut, not GP. No left/right (just front/back), but back face is also paddleable and nicer for swimming with paddle. Best part for me is the egg/rounded trapezoid loom, getting radii and transitions right - so they're not really noticeable (of course you can find egg and oval euro shafts too).

I doubt something like this is going to get a full time wing user too exited (just as no other paddle types will), and the rest want EPs, and a few GPs, and a rarer few Aleuts (which is a draw for favorite paddle). Nature of the beast, but I prefer it over a Superior CF GP, My own GPs, and even my own beloved Aleut, so there must be something OK there.

So, very limited market that I see, but fun to use, and make (for sadists/carvers). Maybe I should draw up plans. Someone trying to make one from descriptions, even with photos, would likely end up with a mess on the water.

After I hit Lotto I'll standardize/model 3D and get some done in CF... *L*

There is one potential for commercialization that's more than a handful of paddlers: I think it would make a really nice safety/backup paddle for open water wing paddlers (mostly meaning ski paddlers who rarely carry spares). Lays flat on deck, ready to go, no left/right and no/parts to futz with, buoyant, and designed for paddle swimming (dihedral side), detuned enough to be easier on you if tired/injured, but still with wing stroke and moderate speed potential to get you home.

Realistically though, I think it would take a company with the reach/clout (and offshore cost to CF mfg) of EPIC in that arena to decently bring something like that to market and get traction. I'm certainly open to a licensing deal...

"the need for a ‘compromise’ paddle"
Well, I’d say your GP is a compromise paddle (I mean that in a good way), so it makes sense that you feel you don’t need another! That you not using a wing 100% of the time sort of reinforces this…

You very well may not have need for other types that fall into a little more specialized slots (though not as specialized as wing) like the Kinetic, some Aleuts, my odd hybrid. That’s true for a lot of folks (most of which have no needs/wants beyond a fairly decent euro).

Personally, paddles that are a bit more efficient at mileage than EP/GP but less taxing than a wing interest me (and I can alway have the EP/GP along too). But then again, I’m also drawn to kayaks that are more efficient at touring than typical sea kayaks but aren’t dedicated/unlimited racers… Boldly reaching into the middle ground! L