I've narrowed it down to two kayaks-Current Designs Extreme and QCC'S 700 for a fast, extended day/day workout touring kayak. I'm 6'3" 220 lbs. I was set on the extreme-deposit made and all but upon further research here-the QCC sounds interesting-longer waterline-hence faster. Other factors: the extreme seems more tighter in the cockpit vs the 700 and with the greater rocker on the extreme- is it much more manueverable? I'd appreciate any input.
well
– Last Updated: Jan-07-04 7:22 AM EST –
I am 6'3" 240, was 230 tell December!! I love my QCC-700. fits me great and after a few modifications, like removing the stock seat back band and going with an NSI one, its quite comfy. Holds a ton of gear and is pretty fast. They also have some great prices. I didn’t get mine with the built in thigh braces as it would have been a pain in the neck to get in an out with them installed. The only problem I have Had, still have is the way the rudder is mounted on the yack, part of the lower bracket sticks into the water. “makes a little drag occasionally”. But I am anal about stuff like that, just like on my MT-Bike I HATE dragging brakes. The rudder should be the TOP mount one if you are over 200lbs!! However thats not an option......yet
I hate dragging breaks too
I’m known to adjust breaks on the trails. Had to live with it in the gloppy goop that I rode in last Saturday.
As for CD versus Q700. I’ve gotta throw the 700 a bone. I’ve got a 600 and it’s a lot of speed and comfort for the money. I’ve been racing it against surf skis and ICF boats (I’m a good bit younger than most of my competitors though so take that with a bucket of salt) and after a year or so of frequent use I’m stable enough in it to use it for fishing. It’s a well finished clean layup. A little light but good strength for it’s weight. The 700 has got to be similar just a bit faster and a bit more maneuverable. Not a bomber sea boat but great for Bays, Lakes, etc… and fitness paddling.
They’ve got to do something about their rudder system though. All the major manufacturers do. Plastic foot pegs, sliding foot pegs, etc… None of that stuff has any business being placed in a boat meant to be driven hard. That’s like mating a Geo Metro tranny with a Corvette engine. They need to start looking at the performance craft like Sisson and Nelo for a direction to head with rudder setups. There should be a stationary push surface with either peddles or a tiller bar in all boats.
Fish vs. Swede, etc.
I can’t say enough about the Q700, and so much has been written on these boards and in the reviews that I don’t need to repeat it. Email me if you have specific questions I might be able to answer.
Another design consideration: Extreme is fishform (at least above water) and Q700 is Swede. The only reason this really matters to me is that the Q700 is narrower forward of the paddler (even more with it’s narrower overall beam) and will allow better paddle plant closer to centerline. Look at the top views on both makers websites. Maybe not a huge difference, but these things add up. How important this is depends on how you paddle. If you like to go fast/far and/or use a wing, short length euro, or GP - such minor things may not be so minor to you.
I cannot imagine the the Extreme feeling as stable as a Q700, or being much more manuverable (even without rudder - my 700 is skegged, and the hull responds perfectly to skeg input in wind/wave, which is seldom needed).
For speed, the Q700 has not only more waterline but less beam too. Got to be faster. 10" easier to handle on land too.
Both are good kayaks. Best thing of course would be a test paddle. For me the choice was clear enough, and the Extreme didn’t make my short list (some slower boats did), and if you don’t like a QCC Q700, you can always send it back.
Both nice kayaks
I have a QCC-700 which I like. The 700 is fast, comfortable, and well made. I also have paddled the Extreme a few times and found it to be fast,comfortable and well made. I think you need to paddle both to make the choice that is best for you. If you are looking for a fairly high volume fast kayak you really can’t go wrong with either. The Exteme I paddled did not have a rudder or a skeg and handled well both kayaks are very stable for thier beam.
Extreme
I know someone who paddled an Extreme last season. He is 6’5" and 240 lbs and has used the Extreme for week-long wilderness camping trips as well as some river paddling. He published some GPS-measured speeds from one of the camping trips (Lake Powell). Sounds like the kayak is both fast and stable when handled by an experienced paddler.
San Diego area? check a Tideline 19
You should also look at a Tideline 19. Haven’t paddled one, but would like to. Design is in a similar performance range to your other choices. Looks to be somewhere in between the other designers thinking - and was designed in your local waters. Could be faster than either.
TIDELINE 19
18’ 9" x 20.75" C/P 30.75 x 16.50
(Don’t know LWL)
Contact Patrick at ONNO/Tideline and see what he has to say. 858-272-7859
http://www.eteamz.com/paddleshop/news/index.cfm?cat=204584
glider
The seda glider is a great boat. Mine has tiller rudder. My problem with qcc boats are the keyhole cockpit. Could be difficult to wet exit in shallow surf break. Translated this means you are stuck upside in boat while head is banging around.The glider has a huge cockpit that is large and very safe to exit and reenter. The glider is very competitive in races such as blackburn challenge. Glider get some speed from a lack of rocker and do not turn well.
Hey , what he said…thanks Greyak
for the mention.
Keyhole cockpit only? NOT!
– Last Updated: Jan-07-04 3:59 PM EST –
QCCs can be ordered with or without the thigh braces so you can have the cockpit either way. Personally, I like having them.
I know of at least one P'Net paddler who used to have a Glider and now has a Q700. Maybe he'll chime in with comparisons (Glider also didn't make my short list - but like the Extreme, it wasn't far off the type of boat I wanted).
Pikabike mentioned the Extreme being stable for experienced paddlers? The Q700 was stable enough for me to go to from a 28" wide SOT. It's forgiving enough for "intermediate" paddlers (whatever that is) without compromising any speed.
Seda
– Last Updated: Jan-07-04 8:55 PM EST –
Seda's quailty control is not up to par with QCC and CD. The Seda's are less money but unless thats your main concern I would stick with QCC or the Extreme. Or give the tideline a try.
Extreme turns well
I haven’t yet paddled a 700, but I’ve paddled a friends Extreme several times. The Extreme is much more responsive than I would have ever thought given its length. It is also a pretty darn efficient touring hull. The QCC may be a little faster, but I doubt you’d notice. Take your time, paddle them both in varied conditions, and choose the boat that feels right. The Extreme has plenty of volumn in the bow to ride dry in chop even when loaded. My friend in his Extreme has no problems keeping up with anyone. I wish I could compare and contrast but am still looking for the opportunity to test paddle a 700.
Greyak, I think you mean me,
– Last Updated: Jan-07-04 5:29 PM EST –
as the p-netter that had a Glider and now has a Q700. Comparisons: Q700 slightly faster and more stable. Plus if you plan on racing,, some races may have an 18' and under class,, another advantage for the Q700 with a waterline just as long as a Gliders and one foot less overall length,,not to mention the Q is narrower too!. Turning is a toss up between the two,, (both of the boats I paddled are ruddered). The Q is definitely faster than an Extreme I test paddled.
Hex
I would actually try to dissuade you
from the extreme, the QC is fine on current designs, but they are using glued in bulkheads instead of glassed in bulkheads, and I believe they are using plastic for the actual bulkhead material. As for the layup of the boat itself, it is ok, but they are a bit light with the material which is great for weight, but bad for durability.
Have you thought about any of the following boats, (in no particular order)?
- Impex Susquehanna
- Valley Argonaut
- P&H Quest, (highly recommended at your height and weight range)
- Nigel Foster Legend
- P&H Orion
- Seaward Quest, (for a ruddered design this boat is quite nice, and seaward makes a great kayak)
- If you can find one used that someone has fixed all the bugs on, how about a NDK exlorer HV? In fact I know a guy…
just because you have a choice of
– Last Updated: Jan-07-04 8:22 PM EST –
padded thigh braces or no thigh braces doesn't make the actual cockpit shape any less keyholish.
For instance, if you removed the thigh braces from an Anas Acuta, it would still have a round cockpit opening...
Good point.
That is a great list of boats. I’m 6’4" and 210 lbs. and fit well in the 4 that I have test paddled (Legend, Quest(both), and Argonaut). I’ve yet to see any problems with glued in bulkheads, but wouldn’t buy another boat with them. My wifes Slipstream and friends Extreme have had zero QC issues but I still wish the bulkheads were glassed in. I agree to such an extent that I actually replaced the plastic bulkheads in my Eddyline with glass. I also like the new VCP Nordkapp, can’t quite fit in the Aquanaut no matter how much I want to.
Cockpit sizes
Cockpit sizes are:
CD Extreme - 16" x 29"
QCC (all) - 16" x 30"
Tideline 19 - 16.50" x 30.75"
Seda Glider - 16" x 33"
Hole, Anas, whatever L
CD
You can special order the CD boats with comp bulkheads and seams.
that’s a good point
if you really like the extreme, and I bet like most kayak makers if you really asked them nicely they might put a little more into the layup of the kayak. P&H does this as does valley.