First rolling class, what to bring?

i’m so jealous!
I liked my little ymca pool but now I have pool envy!

water
Bottled to drink :slight_smile:

When I practiced in a heated pool, I worked up a thrist.



Joanne

You should wear the bikini top only
That will give you incentive to not give up and wet exit, 'cause everyone would see your hiney.

If you chill easily like I do then…
I would wear something slightly warm. I wear neoprene rodeo shorts and a light neo top. I chill easily in water and staying warm gives me more time to practice without taking a break to warm up. I suspect that I’m more suceptable than most, but make sure that you will remain comfortable in the water for a while.



Lou

Diver’s mask – seconded!
For one, nose clips slip off my nose. Yep, I’ve tried them all. I guess I need a bigger nose ;-))



For another, a mask is much more comfortable, and is just one thing with three functions: no water up your nose; no chlorine in your eyes; you can see what’s happening with your body, paddle and boat.



As for weaning – yes, you need to in the end. But most importantly you need eventually learn to roll without a pre-capsize setup, in cold, rough water, etc etc. IOW, there’s lots to do after getting a pool roll. So if getting a pool roll is a bit easier with a mask or whatever, go for it!



You can wean the visual aspect by closing your eyes – good training for combat rolling in any case. Neither non-chlorinated fresh nor salt water is particularly hard on the eyes, but you may always want to protect your nose when practicing fresh-water rolling, since fresh water is hard on the nasal membranses. Many’s the time I couldn’t taste dinner after rolling practice, and sometimes breakfast and lunch too, until I started using a mask.



Bottom line – anything aid you can find to get an initial, solid pool roll (with good form, of course) is good.



–David.

nose plug
Don’t most paddlers attach their nose plugs to their helmets? Perhaps that’s they’re worn in the pool (in addition to extra-safeness.



P.

A sense of humor!



skip goggles/mask
I know people think this is important for orientation problems. Actually using a mask increases orientation problems. Orientation problems stem from reliance on visual cues. The solution to orientation problems is to learn to rely on other cues. The sooner the better. My wife has serious orientation problems and until she closed her eyes and relied on things like tactile orientation to the boat her roll was unreliable.

Good paddling takes time!!! Enjoy!!

– Last Updated: Jan-07-05 10:13 PM EST –

"The most important thing is to be patient and enjoy the process! The winner is the one who gets total personal satisfaction from being in their kayak no matter what they’re doing or where they are. There’s no substitute for time - which is really based on an accumulation of our experiences."

This article by Jay Babina is one of my most favorite articles about learning kayak skills. It is SUCH A GOOD reminder that skills take time, patience, humor, and that impatience pressure and fear of failure inhibit the fine motor control, and feeling that is what makes up the integrated aspect of these moves. Besides, life is short, why not enjoy learning. As they say in yoga, there is no rehearsal, just practice!


http://www.outer-island.com/goodskills.html

A small snippet:

"Whenever I teach someone to roll, scull or other skill related techniques, I always notice a sense of impatience. I was the same way when I first learned. The unfortunate truth about learning more advanced paddling techniques is that it takes time - simply because the techniques involve more than learning specific moves. They involve learning to adapt the moves to your total body - it’s size, weight, flexibility as well as the way you fit in your boat. The general characteristics of your boat also greatly affect how you will adapt the techniques to your own style."

You can always slip a black
cardboard cut out into the divers mask if your that hardcore. They do that in some scuba training. At least your nose will be comfy.



Lots of different learning styles some kinesthetic some visual some verbal. We’ll all find our own way.

You’re missing the point
If you have orientation problems the mask will make them worse. If you don’t have orientation problems using the mask will create dependence on visual cues that you don’t need. Nose clips solve the comfort problem. It isn’t a matter of different learning styles. It is a matter of teaching in a way that is bad for all learning styles.

positive attitude
It’s the only requirement outside of the boat and water you’ll really need

well
naw . …I’ll behave.

Some people learn kinesthetically

– Last Updated: Jan-08-05 12:23 AM EST –

and some learn visually. some need a really precise verbal description. You might want to search some of these terms in combination and see if I am totally isolated in my thinking, or if my thnking might reflect some study of the matter of learning physical skills. Or you might not. Even if you look at "the kayak roll" they will cover kinesthetic and visual cues for rolling.

I get it. You seem to think there is only one learning style. You think that your way is the only way. That's ok for you, but it will not work for everybody.

For me it was much easier to learn to roll by looking at the paddle, seeing the surface of the water etc. I had no orientation problems just technique problems. I have been a surfer, nationally competetive swimmer, open ocean swimmer (over one mile out was routine), bodysurfer, (who could actually catch and ride waves, scuba assistant instructor, advanced diver etc. I have never had an orientation problem in water. After learning visually I developed a kinesthetic memory of the roll, which I now often do with my eyes closed.

I agree with you: in the end kinesthetic clues are best. but first you have to get the basic technique down, and there are some folks who have a visual learning style. For them it is much easier to learn with a mask and then wean from it. (I am predominately visual and verbal myself).

I agree

– Last Updated: Jan-08-05 5:13 AM EST –

Particularly for people who have problems with the paddle diving when attempting to roll, it can be very useful for them to see the paddle in motion. They can then correct their technique and develop a feel for it. Once past that hurdle, visual cues are usually no longer necessary.

BTW, the pool is the only place I wear a 3mm wetsuit. I prefer my dry suit for comfort, but I'm not going to trash it by using it in the pool. I also use an old PFD that I no longer wear for "real" paddling.

Sea Kayak in pool
We take our sea kayaks in the pool. We can have up to 8 at a time. As a general rule, we request helmet wear if the user has one. Lots of us touring folks around here (Pacific Northwest) have and wear helmets - we have a lot of rocky coast and surf. I usually wear hydroskin long sleeved shirt and long pants with pfd, skirt, helmet and noseplugs. Never used a mask. I open my eyes under water and can see what I need to see well enough.



Thistleback

So how did it go?

First pool session learning to roll
Great time! And thanks for all the suggestions.



Water, definitely, and some granola bars for after, I was starved!



I did not bring, and should…a pencil and paper to exchange phone numbers and e-mail. I met 2 other women who lives the next town over.



The AMC has a number of experienced paddlers available for help with learning. The woman who helped me, Melanie, was super. What do you know, what do you not know?



Ok, try this, and this…had me holding onto the side of the pool and practicing my hip snap, feeling the boat move with my body, some bow-recoveries off her boat…I didn’t want to go beyond that, full face and head underwater was far enough, but holding on - definitely more to practice and I am not going to push myself. Need to get to where the body begins to “know” what it’s doing.



A great intro, pushed my skills, and didn’t push myself to the point where I would be scared. Nice to see all the other boats and see what advanced people were doing!



Thanks again for all the suggestions!



Val, in CT








Don’t put words in my mouth.
“You might want to search some of these terms in combination and see if I am totally isolated in my thinking, or if my thnking might reflect some study of the matter of learning physical skills. Or you might not. Even if you look at “the kayak roll” they will cover kinesthetic and visual cues for rolling.”



My own teaching experience and analysis leads me to different conclusions. I see no reason for your arrogant response.



“I get it. You seem to think there is only one learning style. You think that your way is the only way. That’s ok for you, but it will not work for everybody.”



I didn’t say that and do not believe that.

Since when is it arrogant

– Last Updated: Jan-09-05 1:00 AM EST –

to ask you to search a few terms. research helps some of us learn. Some of us like learning.

for those who want to learn: search "learning visual kinesthetic" no quotes.

here is the first hit:

http://www.ldpride.net/learningstyles.MI.htm#Learning%20Styles%20Explained

A pretty neat self test is there.

I quote your post.

"It isn't a matter of different learning styles. It is a matter of teaching in a way that is bad for all learning styles."

I do not need to put words in your mouth. This post seems to deny that some folks learn new physical skills in a predominantly visual manner, then engrain the into kinesthetic memory later (through massive repetition). So, one learning style for you and your students: kinesthetic. I bet your kinesthetic sense is so far above average that it is the dominant metnod for your learning new physical skills. That's cool, but don't let it blind you. Other folks will be wired differently.

My kinesthetic learning is so poor that it took me ages to learn a sculling roll. For me, the development of the kinesthetic feel for the blade angle in that process was a joyous (if painfully slow) revelation.

For me, and others who I have been in the learning-to-roll process with, a dive mask has been an immense help. For some folks learning their fifth roll a mask is a big help at first.

Considering the fact that your opinion of using the mask during the first sessions of learning a roll is hardly universal I find that that your above statement arrogates considerable authority to yourself.

You will notice in my first post I do imply the mask has a downside because you must wean yourself off of it.

"your missing the point" you say. Actually, no. I read quite well, and reject your unsupported assessment.

"If you have orientation problems the mask will make them worse", you say. I find that statement unfounded. Seeing can help a lot more problems than just orientation with a roll. Blade angle for one. Yes, eventually kinesthetic senses will take that (and the entire roll) en passant, but for the visual learners sight will be the lead-in.

To repeat myself: (with better punctuation):

Lots of different learning styles; some kinesthetic, some visual, some verbal. We'll all find our own way.

How can you argue with that? (and so stridently!)

I'm done with writing to this thread. I recommend bringing the mask and seeing what the teacher thinks. Hope the learners get an experienced and versatile one. Hope they get a better one than me, but if they end up with me I'll do my best. I'm sure you feel the same about that last phrase.