Lessons si, certification no
If I had better access to lessons, I’d take more of them. I value a lot of the trial and error I’ve gone through to get to where I am, but I’m at the point now where I have enough idea of what I don’t know and would like to that some focused lessons would be useful. Trouble is, the only chances I get are on the mainland and there’s generally a lot of other stuff to be done that tends to take priority. Maybe I can talk the family into a guided/instructed San Juan trip one of these summers.
don’t go there!
I’ll be accused of blowing up that ballon and getting FREE advertising!!!
glad ya’ like her!
steve
tho…
sometimes during a course I introduce someone to an idea or concept that they had no idea even exsisted. The unconciously incompetent phase. once they see it demoed, they have the ‘hook’ as you say. hey TEACH ME THAT!!! I find this spontaneous learning is quite valuable and gives the course depth and value. you take home something you had no idea you were going to gain.
there’s a bunch of tricks out there that most paddlers wouldn’t mind owning!
San Juan’s eh? were just putting our schedule together as we speak! 
steve
Me too!
Used a plastic T170 in my first coastal class - it was so cool I bought one in Kevlar:)
Joanne
BTW - I’m a beginner who takes LOTS (and LOTS) of classes. All my instructors have been willing to learn (or rethink attitudes) from me.
Different Strokes for Different Folks
– Last Updated: Nov-19-04 12:59 AM EST –
I'm not against learning the right way to do things and the more classes I take or books I read or instructional videos I watch the more I realize how much I don't know, but I am like a lot of people here where the idea of getting tested and rated really turns me off. I kayak because it lets me get connected to the ocean and forget about structured life and hassles.
I don't like BCU Nazis. I decided not to line up kayaks in one spot in Scotland this summer after some folks warned me that paddling in the area required 5 star BCU skills. When we got to the area it was very sheltered and small kids were sailing boats on flat seas. (OK the kids probably had a lot more local savy that I should respect regarding tides and currents.)
Then there is the problem that any system that rates people decides there is a right and a wrong way to do things. A lot of times that is just Crap. An example Flatpick might appreciate..... I used to teach guitar lessons when I was younger and a few years ago I got to play with Charles Sawtelle of Hot Rize, before he passed away, when I lived in Denver. I was amazed that he broke all kinds of rules for technique but was about 1000 times better picker than I would ever be. I had a similar aha experience recently learning from Eric Jackson videos, several of the suggestions he uses were outlawed in the rolling classes I have taken, but guess what, they work really well for me. I've done a lot of jumping through hoops in my life things like Eagle Scout, BS, MS, Ph.D. post doctoral fellow etc.... I want to take a break from jumping through hoops with kayaking and don't want anything to do with ratings.
you got to
play with Charles Sawtelle??? WOW!!!
Yep, he was a flatpick outlaw!!! and one of the best. music from Rancho DeVille is one of my favorite CDs! I played Angel Band at my Mom’s memorial service last January.
My claim to fame is chatting with Doc Watson in the hotel lobby after a concert he did the night before. he asked me if he sounded OK?
enough pickin’, on to paddlin’…
yep i agree tho, there is no ‘only right way’ to do most anything, especially paddling. I think the BCU has softened up a bit in the last few years and now accept many different styles and techniques, long as you can prove they work effeciently and are safe. I can’t say that aboout my PICKIN’ tho! ;-( wish i could pick like I paddle!
steve
Practical Access
I’d avoided posting on this thread, but on reviewing it at this pont, I’m not sure if my main reason for seeking BCU rating was mentioned - ACCESS.
A friend who is an excellent highly skilled paddler who had done all kinds (raft, canoe, ww & touring kayak, etc) was out to the San Juans. She has no BCU rating. She had to demonstrate extensive skills to rent the boat she wanted to use. She lost a chunk of paddling time. Had she a BCU rating there would have been no problem.
There is a 10 day trip planned for this coming June that sounds very seductive to me. As with many of such trips that I find attractive the required skills are stated in terms of BCU ratings.
For me, acheiving a respectable BCU rating means easier access to the things I want to do.
What You Pointed To
– Last Updated: Nov-19-04 5:06 AM EST –
is the value of training, especially with someone more skilled. You can learn a lot undoutably. But, again, this has doesn't necessarily have to do with certification.
As far as "testing" goes, the test is in doing something as needed, in the conditions, that warrant or reward the skill. Sometimes, the lesson is in fubbing up. "Whoa! Never do that again!" Such a lesson gets ingrained really fast.
The need to be validated by an external authority has to do with something over and above the training itself. If it has to do with getting peer approval... Well, if that's a need and it doesn't impact me, go to it and be happy counting your stars against someone else's stars. But, if this is about me and others having to have stars to have access to the water, we got a fight brewing.
sing
Access or Limiting It?
you framed as having access and I see it as self participation in an externally controlled access situation.
I have yet to have someone stop me from doing what I think I’m ready to do or try. If some group requires me to have certification or any other criteria that I don’t feel the need or want to meet, I just don’t paddle with them. That, however, doesn’t stop me from doing a trip.
It’s like our local club having this “group” that does winter paddling and you have to be invited (or so it seems) to paddle with them, meaning somehow you have to pass some sort of screening criteria. Well, I avoided the whole thing, worked on my skills and knowledge of cold water paddling and went off on my own.
sing
Talk About “Closeted” …
rebels…
I know exactly how you feel. In Chinese tradition, there is much made of the “Confucian” approach with it’s hierachy, social order and external examinations for merit/achievement. As a counterbalance, an opposing philosophy, Taoism. The “Taoist” approach eschews all such man made structures and order because these are seen to disconnect the individual from nature and from, perhaps, his/her true self.
What seems irreconcilable was in fact reconciled. Many participated in the Confucian influenced structures in the day to day social world but retreated into private pursuits where there was no attempt to “make order.” Rather, the pursuit was freeflowing, intuitive and serve to connect with the natural flow.
Heck, in my daily life, I participate in a very structured organization. The structures are needed and required to meet the demands of a social world. My paddling doesn’t have to replicate such structures. Indeed, if it were required, I wouldn’t have participated because it would not provide the “balance” that I seek.
sing
Give me the good old days
When someone goes out and get’s themselves killed, Because they didn’t have a clue of what they where doing!!! And everyone only blamed the person not the sport!! Certifacation for instructors I see as a must!! Education for everyone I see as a plus!!
Good Journey’s
Shawn
Funny
Not one mention on how much this will potentially cost… I guess if one has to ask they can’t afford it??? Or is it free…… for the GOOD of the sport… yeah like that would ever happen…
Monetary Value…
– Last Updated: Nov-19-04 7:35 AM EST –
or whether something is worth the money expended is highly personal as well as influenced by what one has at his/her disposal. I wouldn't knock someone who has a lot to expend, though they should probably be aware that others may not have the same. This factors into whether they can or cannot participate, as opposed to thinking that they don't or just can't "cut it" in the "program."
Last year, practically on a whim, I decided to enter the Santa Cruz Surf Festival contest. Paying the $40 entrance fee was not the big deal, though scheduling my work, arranging for staying out there, renting a car and boat required some planning. BTW, no one asked to see my "certification" to enter the contest. If they did, I wouldn't have bothered to go. The fact is that I was glad to have made it out. I learned from participating (and again affirmed I can be totally "crazy" if I need to be and was even able to hold my own with others of similar or more experience) and from watching the highly ranked expert surfers go at it.
sing
My rating system!!!
Also since we are on the certification kick, why don’t we formulate a plan the certify drivers for various parts of the country, to keep those southerners that don’t have a clue about driving in the snow out of the North during the winter months, it would require a 15 step process, to get a Canadian 5 Tire rating. The first step would be the proper technique for scraping the Road salt/and Ice off you window. Step two would be the proper hand over hand turning technique; you get bonus points if you know how to do E-Brake turns!! Step three is proper throttle control very Critical for the Lead foot southerner who normally just floors it to go anyplace! Step 4 is proper Vehicle selection for various conditions, No A jacked up 4x4 monster truck with Gumbo mudders is NOT an acceptable vehicle for ALL conditions. Step 5 is proper down shifting, No autos are allowed!!! Step 6 proper up shifting, step 7 proper braking, no Anti-Lock brake equipped vehicles are allowed as you should learn proper braking techniques first before relaying on a computer to do the work for you, as we know computers fail all the time. Eight proper cold weather Choke modulation for surge free driving, No fuel injected cars allowed, You must learn how to operate a Choke properly before you can rely on a computerized Fuel injecting system that may strand you some place…step 9 proper battery maintenance including topping it off with De-mineralized water, maint free batteries are not allowed as we ALL know that really an Oxymoron!! Step 10 proper snow tire selection and inflation, step 11 advanced weight distribution for increasing traction to the rear of you vehicle, Front or AWD vehicles are not allowed to be used, as you cant do the advanced Power slide in them. 12 The advanced “Power slide” technique extremely helpful for parallel parking and impressing southern Chicks!! Step 13 the advanced “Low Range” craw to simulate pushing southern vehicles out of your way. You must be able to demonstrate the knowledge of the proper engagement of low range in you vehicle, along with the knowledge of proper re-build techniques of either the NP-205 transfer case or the C-6, exceptions will be made for the 350/TH400 combo on a case by case basis!! Step 14 Differential maintenance; student must know the difference between Posi-Trac, Limited slip. And Locking rear ends. Student must also demonstrate proper rebuild techniques of listed rear ends to include proper shimming of the ring gear. Step 15 to receive your C5T (Canadian 5 tire rating) you must either rebuild a 350 or a 351 using only a screw driver a “crescent wrench” and a hammer!! Once you have accomplished this and have sent a Check made out to “Swedge Enterprises” for 3700 American bucks… I will send you a nifty Computer drawn heavy bond paper certificate suitable for framing!!!
Your creativity…
is to be admired. Also indicates a higher intelligence. That was a good read.
hmmm I don’t think I’m saying the
certification path is the right path, all I’m saying is you might learn something if you did try it, and to knock it without trying it seems a bit silly. If you don’t want to try it, that’s fine. But why tear down something you have no experience with?
Yeah
I kinda just went with the flow…
and a …
fair amount of time behind the keyboard!!!
you’re on hi-octane coffee/ espresso, eh?
steve
yeah
just came off a 12 hour shift war Game!!
without
sounding like an advertisement one could easily spend:
Intro class (1-day)- $90-120
Strokes & Maneuvers (L-2)- $90-120
Rescue & Recovery (Canoe Safety Test)- $90-120
DayTripper(L-2)- $100-$150
2 Star assessment- $50-80
Performance Paddling(L-3)- $90-120
DayTripperII (L-3)-$100-150
Nav/ Seamanship- $100-150
3 Star assessment- $80-100
Wind/Waves (L-4)- $120-150
SurfZone(L-4)- $120-150
Currents (L-4)-$120-150
Nav/SeaII- $100-150
4 Star assessment- $100-150
these courses or similar are offered by a number of PNW companies and are generically priced based on full day, low student/instructor ratio and some gear provided. I know of one company that charges a flat $198 a day- NO gear. I know of another that charges $80. Go google for more examples.
so spending (+/-) what a new plastic sea kayak would cost for 15 days of certified, guided, instruction isn’t going to break anyone interested in ‘fast tracking’ their PaddleSport EDU.
btw- NO PaddleSport instructor is getting rich.
steve