I see your point
But still, it never hurts to exchange ideas. Food for thought is good enough. It’s the greatest thing about the internet, IMHO.
I suppose in the end of an exchange like this, both parties go away with more input, and can make better decisions in the future based upon wider perspective.
Point on!
We are in complete agreement.
Proponents Will Rarely Change…
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their respective perspectives, especially if these are based on personal knowledge and experiences.
The undecided readers, however, may be led to more open consideration of the different perspectives. The "open consideration" will eventually become a more held perspective over time with real personal experience or by the experiences of those whom they choose to associate with. (This is how I have seen folks evolved their thoughts around issues of training/techniques, hypothesis vs experiences, etc. In other words, it becomes a "school of thought.")
sing
Well put. (nm)
We do not need to question eachothers
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good faith now do we? (on whether I can get a finger through with the liner and dry glove).
The wwr is all about the thumb pad and thumb aligned with the edge. Ther is no point and youd best not be hitting anything. the lack of a "grip" makes the profile so low that it it more likely to be ther when you need it and not get in your way.
I would not want a choil on a fighting knife, I like them on a whittler, I think of the fingerhole as enabling the thumb to be used on top or the blade like one does with a knife with a choil. the concentration iw going into my thumb and thumbpad.
The Model 6 H2O has a long handle
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That makes it easier to grab and there's no hole to worry about breaking a finger in. It also works better when wearing gloves. You can use the back side of the hook to clear jammed skegs without dulling the cutting edge. It's made with a different steell that's much more rust resistant. Overall, it's just a more useful tool.
Diving BC Knives are what you want
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http://www.diversdirect.com/item/Aeris%20Silverjack%20Knife_ID32640
http://shop.divebooty.com/3029.html
I can find a titanium BC knife (a short knife that fits into a locking sheath you put on your Bouyancy Compensator, which is like an inflatable PFD) with an angled (not pointed, but not totally blunt as in pying point, kind of sheepsfoot blade), and a stainless BC knife with a totally blunt prying point, but can't find a titanium BC knife with a totally blunt end, yet I know they are out there. Ask a local dive shop, if they don't have one, they can probably order one. I HIGHLY recommend titanium, you'll never have to worry about it rusting, not even a spot.
Of course, you can find blunt tip titanium dive knives llke the kind you strap inside your calf all over the place, but the little blunts for the BC in titanium seem to be harder to find.
Ah, that’s why I carry a titanium folder
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tethered to my pfd. The tether is self-reeling. The knife has a "gut hook" along the unsharp side that faces out when it is folded, so in a pinch I can cut line with it without even having to open it. So in one instrument, you've got the best of all worlds - a hook for quick access, a knife when you need more power.
Hook vs knife debate answered here
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I've got the best of both worlds with my folding titanium knife. It is tethered to my pfd via a self-retracting tether. When the knife is folded, the exposed ridge has a "gut hook" for slicing line fast without having to open the knife. If you want more cutting power, just open the knife up. Since it is titanium, you don't have to worry about the locking mechanism or the blade ever rusting. The self-retracting tether minimizes the danger of the knife becoming a tangling hazard, or even a stabbing hazard if you drop it - it will retract to your PFD and the worst you'll do is stab your PFD, but probably not even that.
It's manufactured by Comp, I got it at diversdirect.com for about $30, I think.
Thanks.
It looks like a good choice.
Not my intent.
It truly wasn’t my intent to challenge the mutual good faith of the debate. I was merely asking a realistic question, if you tell me the finger hole on a Lagriffe is big enough to fit a layered finger through, I’ll believe you. It’s just that I can find it troublesome to even fit a finger through the trigger guard of a firearm with gloved fingers on, and those are usually a good measure larger than the finger holes found on knives.
“Ther is no point and youd best not be hitting anything. the lack of a “grip” makes the profile so low that it it more likely to be ther when you need it and not get in your way”
I realize that the Lagriffe is not a fighting knife. The suggestion that you hit a 2x4 with the Lagriffe compared to how you hit it with a trad handled knife is to demonstrate the intrinsic values of both handle styles. Which is to say I think you’ll discover you are much more confident and competent with the traditional handle.
As to the grip profile, I don’t see how adding a finger hole makes a more useful profile. You need a wider, higher profile handle to include a finger hole. Even with the wider handle associated with a finger hole, you are still only utilizing half of it (since the guard side provides no grip at all.) IMHO, a trad handle 3/4 the width of a finger holed handle provides a much better grip at a lower profile.
For choils, choil length is dictated by the knife. It’s not just a “grip” (as in choking up on the blade) factor, it has to do with optimal transition between blade and tang strength. In fact, some of the most renowned fighters have long choils. A 1:1 plunge/choil is not uncommon. In point of fact, if you look at a Mad Dog fighter, you generally find a large choil, and these are arguably the strongest and most capable fighters on the market.
Good advice, Sing.
Since I use neither a seat belt nor a paddle leash, my main concern is being able to cut a tow rope, with the secondary purpose of being able to cut entangling netting or fishing line in the HIGHLY UNLIKELY event that I encounter any.
Let’s be realistic, shall we?
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What is the real likelihood of becoming entangled in anything that's too big to fit into a rescue hook? Seriously, think about it. It's probably about as likely as a lightning strike.
The biggest threat to kayakers is their own gear, specifically leashes, and tow rigs and perhaps fishing line, deck lines or bungees. If you can cut those easily, you've probably got 99.9999999% of likely situations covered.
Have you EVER needed to cut yourself out of an entanglement? Me neither. While being prepared to do so is prudent, it's pointless to worry about every ridiculously small theoretical risk. My experience has led me to the conclusion that a sea kayaker is far more likely to be injured by their own knife than to encounter an entanglement situation where ONLY a knife will work.
Nice try, but folders are worthless…
…when the fecal matter hits the rotary ventilation unit.
Try opening it one handed with gloves on while hanging-upside down in your kayak in rough water. It ain’t gonna’ happen! That’s the same argument I have against shears. In a real emergency, you need a “grab and go” cutting tool. You cannot count on having sufficient time or dexterity to deal with anything “fiddly”. K.I.S.S.
I keep a folding knife in my gear for spreading peanut butter and other on-shore tasks. It’s great for that.
Bingo!
Well put Brian!
But a knife sereves at least two other functions.
#1. It can be used to free a skeg that’s jammed with a rock. However, a butter knife would do as well, though it need not be mounted on the pfd for that purpose, and is not nearly as sexy.
#2. Read #1 carefully for the second function.
;-))) David.
What Can I Say?
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you two have it locked up. :)
It's true I am all about being "sexy" with the knife. Guess I ain't gonna impress those seakayaker babes. :(
sing
3rd possibility
I agree that the chance of needing my knife for rescue is remote. I have made my living using a wide variety of tools. A knife, to me, is another tool with a variety of potential uses. I appreciate having fine tools to use even if I do have to put up with looking sexy in my PFD.
Taj
Sorry…
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Taj, apparently it ain't gonna be sexy with seakayaker babes. They're into "practical" rather than grandiose displays of whatever. Maybe it'll work better with the rock & roll babes on white water. Those white water rodeo jocks still carry PFD knifes. Yup. It's all about sexy.
sing
That’s why the exposed guthook
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on the outside of the knife, which can be used when the knife is closed, is so nice to have. As I've said, you've got the best of both worlds-an exposed safe hook for quick cutting of line without wasting time opening the knife so definitely the grab and go tool you are looking for, but you can still open the knife up when you want the cutting power, and you don't have to worry about a folder coming out of its sheath and stabbing you.
I hate peanutbutter, so I don't use my knife for that. Apart from despising the taste of peanuts, I don't want to ingest aflatoxins, the most potent carcinogen found in nature.
That’s a relief
I get so tired of fighting them off everywhere else.
Taj
(no hip-boots supplied…)