i’m thinking of getting a c-1 stock for workouts and casual racing. the grasse river classic xl looks like a really sweet boat. i was thinking of getting an advantage. they’re pretty common used and i could probably get one for $500 to $750 or so. the grasse river would obviously cost more. anyone paddled these boats and have comments/comparisons. thanks.
Paddled the Advandage
Not the Grasse River but the Classic XL is on the very top of my short list. In the Adirondack 90 miler the top boats in Stock C1 class this year were all the Classic or Classic Xl as I understand it. The Advantage is a nice hull if you like that kind of boat and I do, but it is a much older design then The Grasse River. Having said that I paddle a 1983 Sawyer DY Special that I prefer over the Advantage and I am a Wenonah guy. Not much of an answer but my 2 cents worth anyway.
a hold of Jdunn or hockunum on this board. They have raced both, and I respect their opinion.
The little I have paddled these two boats predisposes me to the Grasseriver, Even though as old bill said I am a wenonah guy…
Many years I played golf without much luck. Then took lessons and wow what a difference. May I please suggest you go to canton,ny and spend time with newmwns who would be such a huge help with outfitting,etc.
I would say
Change that to "Long Weekend. Florida to upstate NY
I started racing in the New York State series in the C-1 stock class last summer after many years of not racing. I did it in my trusty Sawyer Shockwave. From my vantage point (behind most of my class), I can say the XL is the quickest boat in the class. They finished about 15-20 minutes ahead of me in a 12 mile race. The one Advantage I encountered finished in the middle. I purchased an XL at the end of the season and have about 3 hours time in it on a river with some current. So far I’m 100% satisfied with the boat. Initial stability seemed tender but I quickly adapted. Secondary is very solid. With foot straps it can be leaned with confidence to turn faster. It glides well, is quick, and seems well balanced. Its good for casual paddling and I’m told it does well camping. This one is a keeper!
own & enjoy both
I’m lucky (foolish) enough to own both a GRB Classic (not XL) & Wenonah Advantage. When I decided to buy a dedicated solo the Advantage in Toughweave @ a great price became available 1st so grabbed it. Then a friend decided to sell his Classic & couldn’t resist it either. They’re close enough hulls it’s a duplication to own both. They are both very capable, fast, fun to paddle boats. Advantage feels more stable but that may be due to it’s 46 lbs - dbl wt of my 23lb Carbon Fiber Classic. Have paddled Advantage down Missinaibi R to James Bay w/o problems but it’s mostly been stored since getting the Classic - it’s just so much easier to carry. (Will also lighten your wallet by lots more than the Advantage) Have camped out of it extensively & stability improves w/ gear. It barely made podium @ 06 90 miler but D Thomas & C Billingsley would have gone 1-2 even w/o XL’s
I’m about to leave for some paddling in your backyard but if you get up this way(5m from Newman’s shop in Canton) I’d be pleased to let you try both in head to head (bow to bow ?) comparison.
Excuse me for jumping in,…
…but I’m just purely curious as to how any of you gentlemen might view and add in to this comparison a Savage River Otegan. Perhaps giving up 4 to 6 inches in waterline places it back a tad in speed to the XL and the Advantage?
I’ll be in the vicinity of Oakland, Maryland in a couple weekends, and I’m hoping possibly to pay a visit to Mr. Diller’s shop. Had been thinking for over a year now about helping stoke the state economy with a locally produced canoe purchase. Course, now that I’ve semi-inherited/purchased a Voyager, that may have to wait. Still, visions of Otegan/Classic XL comparisons (miss that Grasse River website showing the happy XL paddler cruising by yachts) still paddle through my head.
Thanks for considerations,
I would think
That the shorter length would in fact make it a tad slower, but it is interesting to note that in the New York Marathon Canoe Racing Assocation’s list of boats allowed in the C1 stock class there is a note next to the Otegan saying it has to be modified to be legal. Not sure what that means although it may have something to do with the width to length ratio, but I am pretty sure the modification is not ment to make it go faster. Maybe one of the NY racers knows the details.
I think that mod has to do with excessive tumblehome.
“Tumblehome: Not to exceed 3.5” per side"
Pete in Atlanta
Ah! Got it.
So the Advantage lists-out right at the max in tumblehome, in theory, what with a 29-1/2" max/waterline width yielding to a 22-1/2" gunwale width (thus 7" tuck-in total, or 3-1/2" per side - the limit) verses the Otegan’s 29" waterline width (max width?) yielding to 19" gunwales, for a 5" tuck per side. Wow! That’s big tuck. Is that additional tumblehome really so much of a reach or stroke efficiency advantage that folks need to strap on 1-1/2" sponsons to each side? Odd.
Well, I’m no racer. Just a paddlin’ fool attempting to hasten my surface before submergance time.
Thanks for the info,
That unless you were going to racing either the the Advantage or Otegan would be plenty fast enough. If you want to race with the New York Boys In C-1 stock then you need the latest , greatest and fastest. ( And then you would still be creamed, What NewYorkers lack in social grace they make up at the Race…
i’d like to race in florida on occassion. there are some fast paddlers down here, but i guess nowhere near the level of new york paddlers according to your comments.
but i’m guessing there aren’t many grasse river xls in florida, anyway, though, and that it wouldn’t make THAT big a difference for a greenie anyway.
You may want to check
If there is a C1 stock class in Florida. The GR Classic is not as fast as an all out race boat in the racing class and most likley would not be allowed in the rec. class because of it lines. I think I heard that the USCA is thinking about making C1 stock an offical class which would open more stock races, but I am not sure about it. However if just having fun is what you have in mind then go for it, however as I remember ,I entered my first race some 35 years ago just for the fun of it. Ended up racing for a number of years and buying more race boats then I could afford.
Paddled the Otegan and XL
The XL is extremely fast - probably the fastest.
The Otegan is a fantastic boat - probably as nice as the XL as far as just plain fun and fast.
Don’t know about Wenonah’s, but I didn’t like the Voyager, although it was fast.
Otegan’s and XL’s rule, but I don’t think Otegan’s a legal “racing” hull.
Otegan is legal
You just have to let John know what rules will apply to the tumblehome width. I think he needs to pull them out a little bit to make the boat New York legal.
seems NY legal should be US legal
NY’s c 1 stock is of huge interest to me. i want a canoe i can race against canoes of similar hull speed, specs, etc. and a boat i can exercise in two or three days a week. if florida and the USCA adopted the NY c 1 stock list, i’d be a shoe-in for racing. otherwise, i’m just a guy reading on line and paddling when i want in a slower but wonderful solo.
i’d like to see usca, florida and others adopt the NY classes and canoes, at least for c 1, and even for c 2. just my opinion, though.
I have tried to find Grasse riverboats address. Does anyone know how to get in contact with John Newman? I have an old USCA cruiser he built, but would like the XL.
By the way, where does the Florida person live?
you in this area?