If someone is looking for performance, a good rudder setup is unbeatable "in all paddling conditions" because one is allowed to focus on a proper forward stroke without wasting energy and time doing correcting strokes.
If one is touring at 3-4mph (like most people do) in a touring boat (18ftx21), anything is good.
Nevertheless, a skeg is pure nonsense. It has neither the advantages of a rudder nor the simplicity of having nothing at all. They are not that useful during rough conditions (if one is not paddling into/out the general direction of the waves), and most if no all of them enjoy leak problems of some degree without forgetting all of them take a lot of space.
One more note regarding a good rudder:
To me a good rudder has to be something similar to the setup brought by surfskis and ICF boats no the piece of garbage most sea kayaks bring (feathercraft and the like). Onno and Epic (now) boats are ones of the few with very nice rudder setups for sea kayaks.
Hey, of course, if I have to paddle a boat with a feathercraft rudder, I would rather paddle it with nothing...
agree with Celia… …also there is the risk of damage when loading, unloading, launching, docking, etc.
There’s enough other stuff to worry about. I like keeping it simple & prefer a neutral tracking hull with neither rudder nor skeg.
I bought a rudder for that boat I mentioned above but sold both to separate buyers (and after reading that post about pathetic brands, I recall that it was a F-F-Feathercraft. There. I said it).
understanding the Rudder is best now… …and the biggest problem against them being cheap one’s that are crappy are often put on boats with serious flaws.
that said, it seems if you buy a quality unit, the problems associated aren’t so bad. what would you say are some ‘good’ rudders? I understand that good always costs money, but being this boat will be a representative on how well you survive your outing, price shouldn’t really matter if you’re going to do it right.
However, if you have/want any other boat, I would upgrade the rudder with a Onno foot pedal (very similar to the Epic picture).
The smarttrack housing blade for aftermarket rudders used to be the best. It allows for folio blades and outstanding performance comparing to the “too common flat aluminum one”. However, their foot pedal were their biggest weakness.
can you trim with a rudder? being that’s the primary purpose of a skeg, can the rudder do it to any degree? I would guess this would have to do with perhaps how deep you pull your rudder down, but that’s only a guess. from the reading that I’m doing, it seems that both have their place in boating and while skill is always better, it’s nice to have a handy ‘tool’ with you when you’re in need.
I understand that Kudzu… …but I don’t have that luxury. the rental fleet here is kinda sad, and being the heft I have, the boats they have that I fit, are limited. that’s why I’m asking a lot of questions! some of them want opinons, but this one, was about facts, how the skeg works and how a rudder works.
I don't want to malign rudders for their use in paddling, like I said I just found the darned thing too inconvenient for the benefits. But there's no reason to go over the edge saying skegs are useless.
Re the comment somewhere above that skegs aren't useful in rough conditions, except when going into/out of waves... not true at least in the boats I have. I use a little skeg in a number of conditions, which are actually a little different in terms of specifics in each boat because each is quite different.
Even coming in on waves on one of them - the waves aren't always kind enough to arrange themselves in an orderly fashion and a little skeg can make life easier. Not always critical for life and limb nmaybe, but I don't mind getting the help when I am tired and coming home in stuff that has gotten more interesting than I planned. In fact I have found that a skeg feels a lot better in that situation than the rudder in my Squall did. I always felt like the rudder was too far back and allowed the stern to get kicked around overly much. I'd give it another chance once in a while, always found I disliked the handle intensely and pulled it up. Never have remotely felt a balance issue with a little skeg in the same situation.
And rough conditions per se aren't the only reasons. One of my boats has a stern that gets quite pushed by wind regardless of whether the waves are anything to care about, and the skeg is tremendously useful in that situation.
Oh - and neither of my skeg boxes have ever leaked, or either of my husband's. But I am talking about 4 of those darned Brit boats (NDK, Valley and P&H) and an RM DS Elaho (the Elaho does leak but not in the skeg). And I cannot figure out exactly what anyone would need to pack that would be absolutely critical and the skeg box blocks packing. I slide things like sandals, small dry bags of toiletries, etc behind the skeg box when we camp, or the pointed end of a skinnier taper dry bag. All I am losing is the approximately 8 square inches taken up by the skeg box itself.
Seriously? “Nevertheless, a skeg is pure nonsense.They are not that useful during rough conditions (if one is not paddling into/out the general direction of the waves), and most if no all of them enjoy leak problems of some degree without forgetting all of them take a lot of space.”
Have you ever paddled a skegged boat in conditions? I have.
All three of my boats and both of my wife’s are skegged. None of the skeg boxes leak.
Also if you ever paddle alone, try forgetting and leaving the little safety catch on that keeps the rudder from deploying while car topping. OK, maybe only drifty people like me do that.
A skeg is operated from the cockpit either by a rope or a wire. It is a small blade that drops down near the stern and is in a fixed position. Helps a boat track on a coarse and makes the boat a little harder to turn. A rudder is usually a larger blade that is deployed and retracted over the stern. Wires connected to your foot pegs turn the rudder. A rudder will help turn the boat as well as keep it on course.
Ice knows rudders -clueless on skegs I alway agree on his rudder points - in the context of the sort of paddling he does.
What he always misses it the purpose of a skeg is also to stop wasting energy on corrective strokes. Missing that, no wonder he doesn’t get it. I have to laugh as it must seem to him they do indeed have no usefulness!
For the sorts of boats he paddles (even if he paddled sea kayaks it would be about speed/racing) rudders would be far and away HIS best option.
For most SEA KAYAK paddlers though, either can work well.
The real deal is some boats are designed to have rudders - like ALL race hulls and surf skis. This is not a hull design flaw being corrected - the hull performance is designed to be a ruddered system. Skegs would be disasters on such hulls. These hulls need both weather helm correction AND the added turning power to maneuver AND finer directional control for drafting.
Some sea kayaks are like this too - notably EPIC (which makes sense given the heritage of these boats).
Others, like most sea kayaks, can use either. Which to get on a sea kayak when both are offered is a matter of what sort of paddling you’ll do and what sort of paddler you are. There are reasons skegs are popular for coastal touring - while rudders seem favored more by racers and flat water types (not saying rudders a flat water tools at all - see surf skis). Skegs to are not covering flaws - they are providing options to retain lateral balance with different conditions and loads.
A rare few really hulls are OK with neither - mostly lower volume designs with less boat in the wind or shorter boats also with less in the wind and less effort to correct. Longer hulls can usually benefit from some form of control.
For general touring in a sea kayak I prefer a skeg - which is rarely used - but really nice to have in a cross or quartering wind. I’m just too lazy (especially if paddling hard) to have to work something with my feet -and have it dictate foot position and muscle tension.
I’m not anti-rudder at all (except garbage sliding pedal types) The race boats and skis, as already mentioned, have some really nice setups - and finally some sea kayaks are following. If I raced regularly, I’d be gravitate to ruddered designs. Drafting’s too much work without…
Very stupid topic to debate - as it’s somewhat rare to even have the option on the same hull - making it very much apples and oranges.
I’m curious to know… …how many boats actually use both skeg and rudder, being they do two different things? or would one cancel out the other or otherwise cause issues?
The packing issue Well, from the looks of this line of commentary,today’s paddle from Juneau to Admiralty Island was a better place for me to be than reading the message board. I’m new to this discussion format and should have taken into account the words of the first respondent as a warning for what was to come. Ha ha ha ha. And I thought he or she was being smart. Now I know they were running screaming into the woods.
On the point of what anyone would want to pack in the rear hatch between the skeg box…
My Explorer can’t carry the shotgun in the rear hatch. It peaks at about fifteen days worth of food and gear; a modest trip. That isn’t just the problem of the skeg, the day hatch bulk head is also a limiting factor. By the way, the Explorer was purchased in 1998 after a rather disastrous attempt by a group out of ND East Anglesy’s shop to guide a trip from here south to Tracy Arm and back. They arrived a week ahead of the brand new kayaks sent from the UK, and had to rent some plastic CD Storms for the trip. Upon their return they sold the Explorers to pay for the rental. Lots of shame, but they did say the Storm’s rudders came in handy when fighting the currents at the entrance to Holkum Bay.
My wife and I have put about 4500 miles on the kayak with 10 trips of over 250 miles each – she paddled it for the past three years until she too threw in the towel and bought a CD GTS without a rudder – The skeg box leaked until I replaced the hose and clamp. (It no longer leaks, but it was a mystery for a year as to where the water was entering the rear compartment.)
Our friends with Mariners ( no skeg, no rudder) have their own problems that centers around weathercocking.
Hey, how about a discussion on feathered vs unfeathered? That should generate some real opinions!
that’s why I’m asking a lot of questions! some of them want opinons, but this one, was about facts, how the skeg works and how a rudder works.