gunwale strength

-- Last Updated: May-23-11 8:15 PM EST --

I'm very close to buying either an Old Town Tripper 172 or Discovery 169, both with vinyl gunwales, the Tripper in Royalex and the Discovery in 3 layer polyethylene. One of three ways that I will be transporting the canoe is resting on the gunwales and supported by Yakima crossbars mounted to my Jeep Wrangler hardtop. The crossbars are about 43" apart. The Jeep is about 13 ft long. Roughly half of the canoe would not be supported in this configuration. Are the gunwales of these canoes strong enough to allow them to be transported this way? I am considering mounting a 2" receiver to the front bumper of the Jeep and supporting the canoe from there with a canoe loader like this one:

http://www.a1-autoracks.com/weston-canoe-loader-31-0901-w.html

I'm wondering if this is really necessary or if I can get by without it(and save about $150)?

Shoodn’t have a problem…

– Last Updated: May-23-11 8:21 PM EST –

Wit a 4 foot span. Dem gunnels be plenty strong. Two belly bands an' most important - stem tiedowns in de classic "V". Ta play it even safer ye kin run straps around de thwarts an' de crossbars on de rack.

Hey ah's used ta carry two tandems (one a Tripper) on me '73 Pinto.

FE

The canoe gunwales are strong

– Last Updated: May-23-11 8:48 PM EST –

enough.

If you trust your Jeep roof, don't worry. However don't forget tie downs bow and stern to minimize boat wobble. I heartily suggest the investment in gunwale brackets.

And we are praying for your back. The OT Tripper is quite an exercise to portage.

Most of my friends have OT Trippers of very ancient age. As their backs are similarly aged (by the Tripper) carts are in the kit, or routes with no portages.

The Discovery will be as bad or worse.
With what’s available now, neither is a candidate for trips with portages.

sounds good
should be good. Nice to put a piece of foam or old carpet between the gunwale and bar…to add a little paddling and sort of form a seal between…like an oil seal in the engine…that way any friction is not on the boat or bar.

I also like to add one off either the bow or sterm…but not nescessary…and hook it to the front under the bumper somewhere such as the tow hook or whatever. When i going down the highways the semis and whip the boat side to side and nice to have a piece of mind. There is no such thing as overkill…just make sure the thing is on there. Also with the front/or stern line…IF you Yakima rack bracket breaks (which ive known a few people who’s have) then the canoe wont go flying off into somebodys car etc…

I’m a 100% fan of the …
… vertical T-Bar “and” canoe stop blocks on the cross bar .



No , you won’t want to portage either of those canoes far , but if it’s just load and unload , put-in and take-out (within a 100’ or so) , no problem .

Flying boats…

– Last Updated: May-24-11 12:30 AM EST –

Paddler on Arkansas Canoe Club website recently posted regarding failure of his Yakima roof racks.
Had no bow/stern lines on the 2 kayaks he was hauling on the racks.
One kayak was "flattened like a pancake)(his words) by the semi behind him.
The other kayak must have gotten a glancing blow, as it only had a 3 inch long crack that he thought be might? be able to repair?

I don't use bow/stern lines either; they're just a pain in the butt, and they take the better part of 6 to 8 minutes to secure. I'm in too big of a hurry. What's the chance something like that can happen to "me" ?

I jest!
:^)

BOB

.
Like everyone else said, you’ll be fine either way but the hitch mount “T” bar will make things easier for you. And yes, dont forget the bow ans stern lines. If you do a little prep ahead of time you can come up with a system that will allow you to tie both ends down in under two minutes. Making it easy on yourself will just guarantee you actually do it.



So, you can start without the hitch mount for now just to get paddling and then invest in one later.



Yeah, those two boats are heavy but…so what? I paddled a Discovery for years…all 85 pounds of her! They’re only heavy taking em on and off the car. Here’s a tip to everyone worried about portage…a lot of people NEVER do, unless you call walking from the saw horses to the car a portage. The guy asked about transport not canoe advice, sounds like he already has that part figured out.

I agree
The gunwales are plenty strong, and I have never used gunwale brackets and never missed them.



As for portaging, it is strange to me that everyone assumes 40lbs. is great, 60 OK, and over 80 next to impossible. People have different strengths, and some folks can haul a 100lb. canoe with no difficulty.



I like the Tripper - very trustworthy companion.

Vinyl on Vinyl
If your bars are wrapped in vinyl there is not much friction to keep the boat from sliding fore and aft.



Add to that if you tie off with nylon straps that stretch when wet you can see there is a sliding risk at interstate speeds.



I like the brackets. Mine are really old and I have not had a failure. They prevent slide in all directions, fore and aft not just side to side.



I never wrap under the bumper but to nylon loops bolted through the frame at the edge of the hood. Gives a little more downward tug and prevents bow from ride up if the line is perpendicular to the boat.

Canoehead, our first boat was 85 pounds
and before we went to Quetico for 12 days, I did repetitive cleans with a 125 pound Olympic bar in the basement, AND repeatedly threw the boat up on my shoulders and marched around the yard. Prior to that, I had rowed and sculled for years, deadlifting, cleaning, doing half squats with much higher weight levels.



But after repeatedly lifting and portaging that boat in the wilderness, I realised that only an IDIOT voluntarily uses a canoe like that for portaging.



I owned a Tripper later, and had several occasions to portage it uphill from the Chattooga. Eventually I sold it and got a tandem ww boat I could carry balanced on my head.



So, pardon me if I don’t take seriously your statement that such heavy canoes can be easily portaged by some people. French Canadian voyageurs who have blitzed out their brains on booze, yes. Normal people know when too much is too much.

Another thing about the brackets…
…is that they make for consistent placement of the boat, fore and aft. So your bow and stern tie-downs arrangement can be a repeatable custom fit. Speeds things up a bit.

ha , I remember once …

– Last Updated: May-24-11 5:27 PM EST –

...... someone thought it would be helpful to load up the canoe with all the stuff from the truck and then try to carry it to the water . The idea was to make just one trip to the water , lol . Needless to say that only happened once .

I was preoccupied doing something else after we set the canoe on the ground and didn't notice all the stuff that got put into it until I returned . I just smiled and said I don't think we can carry that way , here you grab one end and let's see if we can , lol .

Strap it on and GO
No problem with a Dico, this is from my experience. I have racked my Disco 158 as well as other canoes, with vinyl and with wood, to my Kia Spectra with no name racks and traveled at high speeds, long distances, over rough roads with no problems. The gunwales will hold up better than your tie downs, check those a lot. Some padding is ok under them, I use water insulation tubes, and tie down front, back, and over both racks. If I know I’m going into high winds I will on occasion tie a line through the car but that has to be some high winds. I wouldn’t worry too much about the gunwales holding up! Just my 02.



dougd

WOW
(QUOTE)Canoehead, our first boat was 85 pounds

Posted by: g2d on May-24-11 12:22 PM (EST)



and before we went to Quetico for 12 days, I did repetitive cleans with a 125 pound Olympic bar in the basement, AND repeatedly threw the boat up on my shoulders and marched around the yard. Prior to that, I had rowed and sculled for years, deadlifting, cleaning, doing half squats with much higher weight levels.



But after repeatedly lifting and portaging that boat in the wilderness, I realised that only an IDIOT voluntarily uses a canoe like that for portaging.



I owned a Tripper later, and had several occasions to portage it uphill from the Chattooga. Eventually I sold it and got a tandem ww boat I could carry balanced on my head.



So, pardon me if I don’t take seriously your statement that such heavy canoes can be easily portaged by some people. French Canadian voyageurs who have blitzed out their brains on booze, yes. Normal people know when too much is too much.(/QUOTE)



WOW, so anyone who owns an Old Town Discovery or similar weight canoe is an idiot?? OK then. Hey while we’re mass lumping people into categories… lets all agree that people from Georgia are morons…sound good?



There’s one in every bunch!

roll cage tubing
wears far better than pipe insulation

If you go into BWCA with an 85 lb

– Last Updated: May-24-11 9:53 PM EST –

canoe and do multiple portages, when you could rent a 50 pound boat (like the one I own now) and portage in relative comfort, then you ARE an idiot, just like I was when I did it in 1973. Even then, a lightweight Grumman 17 footer would have done the job for us.

If a person buys an 85 pound canoe, hopefully that person does it with intelligent foreknowledge that it is the wrong boat for repeated portages. Very wrong.

And Flores, it's clear from your misunderstanding of my post that you're nursing issues. How could that be construed as a general comment about people who own Trippers? I owned and used a Tripper for years, avoiding portages as much as possible.

.
Who said anything about a portage?? or the BWCA?? Nowhere in his question did he mention either. He asked about gunwale strength and transporting a canoe on top of a car. The guy lives in California. So anyone who doesn’t share your opinion is an idiot? Nice to know. Personally I think a guy who cant carry an 85lb canoe is a pussy but I’m not pushing that belief on anyone. Unreal. I guess the world was full of idiots until they made the first sub 60lb canoe huh?

Easy there. I don’t think he said that

– Last Updated: May-24-11 10:31 PM EST –

You got the quote right...

"...only an IDIOT voluntarily uses a canoe like that for portaging..."

... but you didn't interpret the meaning the same way that I did. Obviously you don't see it the way I do, but to me, the words "owning" and "voluntarily choosing" have entirely different meanings. Plenty of people who are not idiots portage heavy boats, but I've never met one who does so because that's the boat they WANT TO CARRY ("voluntarily use") on trails. They're doing it because it's the boat that they have, perhaps because they couldn't afford a lighter boat. I think g2d used a tad bit of hyperbole to make his point, so I didn't perceive any insult aimed at people who happen to have a boat that isn't the best one for the job, and ESPECIALLY not aimed at people who don't even need a lightweight boat. You inferred that but it was neither stated nor implied.

it’s like you said originally g2d …

– Last Updated: May-25-11 1:04 AM EST –

...... "neither of those canoes is a canidate for trips with portages" .

Seems everytime someone ask about one of the heavier model canoes , someone always mentions that they are a real pain to portage cause of the weight ... ain't it the truth !!

I wouldn't even consider using our 85 pounder if there were any real portaging required . Though it can be done , and many have (including yourself) , most would not want to repeat it given an option .