I haven’t but just curious as I am getting a new kayak with a different type of hatch (sea dog) than I have had before. Like, if a bear or raccoon smelled something on the cover, or something from inside, would your boat’s hatches, and therefore your boat, potentially be in any jeopardy.
See this? This is a can of worms. See the top here, where all of the worms are wriggling out? Yup… here goes…I’m opening a can of worms.
**Never, never, never **store your food in a kayak hatch overnight. This is what I’m assuming you’re inferring by your question because in the daytime I can’t see it being an issue.
Animals aren’t stupid. They begin to associate food with whatever they find it in, on, near, under, above, and around. All it takes is one curious animal getting into a hatch and then all the rest of our kayaks start looking like pinatas to the bears - regardless of whether they have food inside or not!
“I’ve never had a problem storing food in my hatches!”, says the “60+ years of experience” paddler extraordinaire. BUT THAT’S NOT THE POINT. The point is that there are much better options, and when one is readily available it should be used. To do otherwise is just plain lazy and dangerous to the animals and other people like myself.
Aw, damn… all my worms escaped…
Not to belabor this can of worms, but where do you suggest i store it. I’m not going to “store” it out in the open because that’s not really storing it and everything would get into it (hermit crabs, flies, etc.) and I’m sure that’s not what you are suggesting. When I was young and inexperienced, I did store some stuff in dry bags outside my tent, but not after I was raided by raccoons who got into what they could and tried to drag the rest away, Maybe I could unload several days worth of food and whatever trash I had from previous days into my tent each night but that just invites the creatures to come knocking in the middle of the night (definitely not a good idea in areas with the bears to which you alluded in your response), and and least half of the beaches I have camped on do not have trees where I could hang all of my food and food-scented waste, and often those that do have trees, have trees in areas that are back in the thickets and somewhat inaccessible. I am at a loss for thinking of “much better options.”
@Monkeyhead said:
Not to belabor this can of worms, but where do you suggest i store it. I’m not going to “store” it out in the open because that’s not really storing it and everything would get into it (hermit crabs, flies, etc.) and I’m sure that’s not what you are suggesting. When I was young and inexperienced, I did store some stuff in dry bags outside my tent, but not after I was raided by raccoons who got into what they could and tried to drag the rest away, Maybe I could unload several days worth of food and whatever trash I had from previous days into my tent each night but that just invites the creatures to come knocking in the middle of the night (definitely not a good idea in areas with the bears to which you alluded in your response), and and least half of the beaches I have camped on do not have trees where I could hang all of my food and food-scented waste, and often those that do have trees, have trees in areas that are back in the thickets and somewhat inaccessible. I am at a loss for thinking of “much better options.”
Short answer: bear proof containers, which will protect food against hungry critters, big and small. There is a long thread on this forum about bear proof containers which was active until a week or so ago. Check it out at https://forums.paddling.com/discussion/2934424/expedition-size-bear-canisters#latest . If you have bear proof containers, you just set them on the ground some distance from your camp, in an area where a curious bear is unlikely to roll them into the water. They work great in areas with no trees or cliffs from which you can hang your food.
I think that Monkeyhead has a valid concern about bears and other critters trying to pry open his kayak or chew into its hatches in search of food. These critters have very sensitive noses, and I suspect that they can tell that a kayak has contained dry bags or other containers which contained food, even if those dry bags or other containers are not in the kayak at the time. And they may try to rip their way into the kayak to see if there is anything tasty inside. Perhaps it makes sense to leave the hatches open or off, so any hungry animals can look inside and see that there isn’t anything there to eat.
I hadn’t thought much about it one way or the other but had imagined those bear proof containers to be too big to fit in a kayak hatch, but at least the Bare Boxer seems like it might work.
@Peter-CA said:
https://youtu.be/IOlaKHxUJNU
Ouch! After listening to that screechy woman wailing at the bear to stop attacking her kayak, I’d like to bear spray her!
@Monkeyhead said:
I hadn’t thought much about it one way or the other but had imagined those bear proof containers to be too big to fit in a kayak hatch, but at least the Bare Boxer seems like it might work.
The Bare Boxer is the one I use. Fits well in most size hatches. Fits 3 days worth of food, 4 if you pack conservatively. I have a second one for longer trips. I will admit that on my desert paddles I keep my food in a standard dry bag & yes I keep it in the vestibule of my tent. I realize this is asking for trouble. I should either carry my food in my Bare Boxers all the time, or invest in an Ursak to deter small critters.
The screechy woman video may be wayyyyyyyy over the top, but it does make a legitimate point. Critters of all sizes only see a kayak as a potential food container with a stubborn lid, not as a mode of transportation like us two-legged critters do.
@Monkeyhead said:
I hadn’t thought much about it one way or the other but had imagined those bear proof containers to be too big to fit in a kayak hatch, but at least the Bare Boxer seems like it might work.
Depends on the kayak. I can fit two big bear vaults and one small bear vault in the rear of my Prijon Yukon Expedition, and could fit additional smaller bear proof containers in the front if I wanted to.
We don’t have bears to worry about but racoons and inside the hatches are the only place to keep food safe.
@grayhawk said:
We don’t have bears to worry about but racoons and inside the hatches are the only place to keep food safe.
Although you’d have better luck with the racoon in a fight, I wouldn’t trust my kayak to keep food any more secure against raccoons than bears. I’m sure a bear resistant container would work just fine in your case too.
I’m lucky and get a $50 REI gift card every 3 months from my workplace. This thread has me thinking about using my card on either an Ursak Minor critter sack, or several of the Opsacks. When I paddle in bear country I have my Bare Boxer canisters. When I paddle in desert canyons, I just have my food in a dry bag. On all trips I have my garbage in a trash bag lined dry bag. I know I can use my bear canisters anywhere, but a dry bag packs easier for the non-bear trips.
The Ursak Minor seems like it might be overkill. Chew proof, but I don’t think it’s odor proof? Critters could still smell stuff, but not be able to access it.
The Opsaks seem like a lot more bang for the buck, and more versatile. I could get 2 large ones & 2 medium ones for less than half the price of the Ursak Minor. I could use a large one in my trash dry bag, and pack food in the others. I could still pack food in my dry bag for non-bear trips.
Are the Opsaks reusable? Can they be washed out, dried, and used again?
I don’t do bear country but I HAVE had problems with raccoons and mice.
Thus I double bag all my food, then that food bag goes into a dedicated dry-bag. And all those dedicated dry bags go into a much better dry-bag. Not perfect but helps.
I NEVER leave food in my kayak or PFD as the animals will chew through anything to get at what they smell, thus I have a hole in my PFD pocket! I may leave non-food stuff in my kayak but I always leave the hatch open so the animal can root around inside and leave, leaving my boat and hatch intact.
Bear-boxes come in many sizes. I was at REI and simply grabbed their selection and walked over to the kayak display looking for my model. I then tested the boxes until I found on that fit. Most stores have a liberal return policy of you talk to the manager first. “I have my kayak in the parking lot, can you send a sales-clerk with me to test this box or hold my Drivers License while I check it out?”
I have yet to find the bear, raccoon, mouse or camper who could get into a steel ammo-can. But those generally are for rafters or canoeists.
Raccoons and rats are a bit problem in the Everglades - at least they were before the python boom caused their numbers to plunge. The raccoons were very talented at opening kayak hatches to gain access to food and water. A couple of straps tightly wound and tied secure the hatches and keep the little furries out. The latest trick is the crows that have figured out that they can puncture lightweight water bottles and get to the water that way.
I had a mouse chew a hole through the side of a small bottle of shampoo. I hope it was disappointed by the contents. Another time I left a water filter lying on the ground next to my tent while I went on a short hike. When I came back, some rodent had chewed all of the filter’s rubber hoses into little pieces. I don’t know why it didn’t look elsewhere for lunch after taking a single bite. It must have enjoyed chewing up the rubber. I had a mouse or other rodent chew a hole in the side of a large dry bag, climb inside, and gnaw holes in some plastic bags while looking for food. I didn’t have any food in the dry bag, but it probably smelled of food from prior trips. On an unsupported Grand Canyon kayak trip, ravens pecked holes in some of our dry bags, and we learned to keep the bags inside our kayaks or our tents to protect them from the birds. Despite these experiences, I’m pretty confident that a little varmint wouldn’t be able to chew its way into a bear-proof container.
@djo said:
Raccoons and rats are a bit problem in the Everglades - at least they were before the python boom caused their numbers to plunge. The raccoons were very talented at opening kayak hatches to gain access to food and water. A couple of straps tightly wound and tied secure the hatches and keep the little furries out. The latest trick is the crows that have figured out that they can puncture lightweight water bottles and get to the water that way.
also steal your food when your back is turned… In the Glades we use hard sided water containers. Those however are hard to fit in kayaks…
Its always fun to rummage in the blue barrel and find a rat staring at you from the top edge… waiting for dinner. I learned early on to keep the lid on THAT closed all the time.
Touring in coastal BC, I have always stored food in my hatches. I’ve had wolves and bears go through camp without mishap.
Recently, there has been awareness that some wolves in BC have learned to open rubber hatch lids (Valley/Kajaksport), so this past summer my buddy and I laid our boats upside down on logs. No mishaps.
Of course, the safer choice would be to store the food in bear containers or to simply hang it. But the coastal black bears and wolves I’ve dealt with have all been well-fed (this summer the bears were particularly fat thanks to a bumper berry crop), so we reasoned that they were not desperate for our food. Admittedly, we might regret that decision one day.
A little off topic…At Flamingo in the Everglades the buzzards will roost on your vehicle in the parking lot and make the rubber parts of wipers, window seals, etc their meal/plaything. They’ll rip 'em off the vehicle. Some folks put blue tarps over the vehicle covering up the rubber seals, etc. They’ll also go after the tent.
I have always worried about buzzards attacking my windshield. But in a month total of parking at Flamingo nothing has ever happened… Have no idea why. Now as far as dinner at Darwin’s… they are watching…
Perhaps some Hungarian fairy dust
(Pap’s rika or smelly cayenne you trust)
in solution you’ll spray habanero broad way
to nose how to caps what come’s lust.
A little cayenne-onion-garlic-habanero-dishwashing soap spritzer each evening to the hatches may provide a few nights of raccoon and rodent deterred efficacy. Hell, paddling in the Carpathians, it might even ward off Vlad and the Skegsucker Proxy Sisters on a full moon bedazzled campsite! Although I’ve heard of “what lovely music they make,” should your campfire circle be lackin’ in the entertainment department.