@JackL said:
Leave a lot of it at home and
Get a PLB.
Help is there in about ten minutes
I keep mine in my PFD pocket and don’t leave the shore without it.Jack L
Unless I’m misunderstanding this years-old post, and I don’t think I am, you are recommending an emergency device over measures and supplies that will help you avoid or ride out an emergency. A far safer approach is to not bring a PLB and make damn sure you don’t need one.
@qajaqman said:
A far safer approach is to not bring a PLB and make damn sure you don’t need one.
Do you remove the air bags from your car? Refrain from wearing your seat belt? Ride a bike without a helmet?
Might as well leave the PFD at home too, since you won’t be in a situation where you’ll need it.
Of course I’m pretty sure I see the point you’re trying to make. But you go too far with it. Safety equipment should always be brought/worn, but never depended on individually or as a first line of defense. Plan B and C should always exist, and good judgement can skip having to use plan A.
@qajaqman said:
. A far safer approach is to not bring a PLB and make damn sure you don’t need one.
Respectfully disagree, especially if one is a solo paddler. There’s nothing “safe” about that advice simply because no matter how well prepared you think you are, events can happen over which you have no control. Only comic book characters are invincible.
Read the “Deep Trouble” books for a different perspective.
I’ve read the Deep Troubles several times. My point (and that of the books) is that prevention should be your first line of defense, not emergency locators that put other people at risk too. Thats fine if you want to bring one, but not at the expense of leaving other stuff behind which is exactly what Jack was recommending.
@Sparky961 said:
@qajaqman said:
A far safer approach is to not bring a PLB and make damn sure you don’t need one.Do you remove the air bags from your car?
No
Refrain from wearing your seat belt?
No
Ride a bike without a helmet?
Bicycle, yes, motorcycle no.
Might as well leave the PFD at home too, since you won’t be in a situation where you’ll need it.
Of course I’m pretty sure I see the point you’re trying to make. But you go too far with it. Safety equipment should always be brought/worn, but never depended on individually or as a first line of defense. Plan B and C should always exist, and good judgement can skip having to use plan A.
I’d rather go out with no PLB and proper preventative knowledge, training, safety supplies and equipment than with a PLB and without the latter. You are absolutely much safer that way. Relying on technology and other people to come save your unprepared ass is the worst safety plan ever.
@qajaqman said:
I’d rather go out with no PLB and proper preventative knowledge, training, safety supplies and equipment than with a PLB and without the latter. You are absolutely much safer that way. Relying on technology and other people to come save your unprepared ass is the worst safety plan ever.
I agree with your rejection of the idea of taking the PLB and leaving everything else at home, but there’s no reason to leave the PLB at home either - especially when going out solo and to very remote places with few people and no cell signal.
But in no way did I claim that one should rely on technology to “be saved”. In fact, I’m vehemently against the idea. In a difficult situation (and preferably way before that), my brain is my most valuable asset. Second only to my body and physical abilities. If one or both fail me, I’m going to need help or I need to accept the fact that I’m not going to make it back. This is why I carry a VHF radio, cell phone, and PLB. To date I haven’t used any of the three to signal for help, and I’ll make every possible effort to keep it that way. I love getting very far away from “civilization” but I’m too young to wander off into the wild and die. I still have two living parents who will mourn my loss.
And despite the fact that this is going to cause the thread to go way off on a tangent, consider how valuable your brain is to you next time you hop on your bike without a helmet. Feel free to talk it up and boast about how unnecessary it is here, but go prove to yourself just how smart you are by quietly changing your thinking on this and wearing a helmet. If you still aren’t convinced, make an effort to meet someone with a head injury… though “meet” isn’t quite the right term, more like “observe”.
Rookie is right - solo is solo and over-preparation in terms of gear is NEVER a wasted backup to skills and judgement. The one time you may need it will feel like it was plenty worth the cost. You can get lazier with other people around.
@Celia said:
Rookie is right - solo is solo and over-preparation in terms of gear is NEVER a wasted backup to skills and judgement. >The one time you may need it will feel like it was plenty worth the cost. You can get lazier with other people around.
No its not right, its wrong. Jack was advocating leaving safety equipment and supplies behind in favor of EMERGENCY LOCATOR.
That is dead wrong, nine ways to Sunday, and you won’t find any advice even remotely like that written in Deep Trouble.
Um, when this this become and either or? You should have the best gear and the best training. The more tools in your toolbox, whether gear or skills, the better.
qajacman
Unless l have completely departed in my understanding of the language l said Rookie was right in advocating for carrying a full bank of stuff. I was not remotely getting into the idea of one beacon replacing other objects.
That is an argument you want have with Jack, and please do not drag me into it.
Not sure l am relevant in that one anyway. As far as l am aware Jack most often paddles with at lelolreast one other person. Inversely Rookie or myself are usually alone on bigger water.
Jack is getting a bum rap here. Quoting: “@JackL said: Leave a lot of it at home and Get a PLB.” He didn’t advocate leaving the cell phone, radio, map, compass or any specific safety equipment at home. In a later comment he stressed the importance of carrying a whistle.
Re-reading this thread, we all omitted suggesting one important item: a float plan.
Thanks Rookie, and any needed apologies to Jack. I truly was only commenting on your post and reflecting a solo point of view. It is not at all my preferred way to go, solo l mean. But l would like to go out and stand off the ledges where the seals hang this morning (far off so l don’t disturb them). And there is no weather coming up until 2 hours after l will likely be back.
@Celia said:
qajacman
Unless l have completely departed in my understanding of the language l said Rookie was right in advocating for carrying a full bank of stuff. I was not remotely getting into the idea of one beacon replacing other objects.That is an argument you want have with Jack, and please do not drag me into it.
Not sure l am relevant in that one anyway. As far as l am aware Jack most often paddles with at lelolreast one other person. Inversely Rookie or myself are usually alone on bigger water.
I “dragged you into it”? Lol, how did I force you to get into it at all? You voluntarily entered to defend Rookie, who is STILL defending Jack’s indefensible statement.
Whistles and PLBs are EMERGENCY equipment. When you have to use those, your safety preparations have failed. Now other people’s lives are risk to help you.
That doesn’t mean you shouldnt bring them (though I only bring one of the 2), but leaving other safety and survival gear and supplies at home because you are bringing them is exactly…EXACTLY…what Jack was advocating. It provides a false sense of security to many people, and is the wrong message to send to inexperienced paddlers (or disabled persons like the OP) who may be reading.
I was saying l agree with Rookie. I don’t regard it as taking a position about anything else. You obviously view Rookie as a combatant here. I don’t, just think she said something that made sense. This ain’t WWF.