@rnsparky just be careful with your generalizations. You have $200 kayaks from Pelican, but not all Pelican kayaks are $200 kayaks.
Your comment is similar to someone saying that they know Toyotas are cheap new vehicles, because they bought a brand new the absolute base model Corolla for $20k.
Sure those cars exist, but that doesn’t represent all Toyotas.
when this thread first started I took a good look at the different pelican kayaks on their website and the different models they made and I saw improvements from the earlier models but I didn’t see anything I wanted to buy. I doubt they could stand up to the abuse I would put them through and they just ain’t suitable for a lot of the places I like to go (rocky creeks with ww). I want a boat that can handle a lot of different environments and that ain’t a pelican. When I do see them out I’ve seen a lot of floating and not much paddling by the users. In the very short time that I paddled a pelican, it far exceeded my expectations for tracking and ease of turning.
It is also interesting to note that Pelican’s pricing is comparable to other brands of rec kayaks on the market. Sure, they have some boats for kids that are under $300 but the rest fall in the same ranges.
I was referring to the lowest cost Pelicans and Dolphins, the models that make up 95% of their sales.
They used to make a Platinum version of the Yugo!
This is a super cool solution! Props to you, probably much harder to break than a float bag as well. When the tour company I worked for got NRS float bags we had one break every other day.
Down horse, down!
Thanks.
Yes they are really tough. She uses it as a foot brace and says she likes it better than the ones built into the boat.
In my canoe I placed two of the peanut yoga balls inside Army Surplus rubberized laundry bags and blew them up and laced them in. Having them inside the bags adds some protection and also allows you to air them higher and they don’t change with temperature as much. Kind of like the bladder in a football.
Makes capsize recovery a lot easier.
(In this post I am only focusing on single person sit-in kayaks)
I think the reason Pelican get picked on is because its the most popular and generic of the lower quality kayak brands, I believe it is more popular than Sundolphin and similar brands. Companies like WS do sell rec kayaks, but they also sell a higher amount of better quality kayaks which help keep their brand name reputable. Looking at the sit inside kayaks on the WS website, all of them have at minimum rear bulkheads, and all of the single person touring boats have both bow and stern bulkheads. On the other hand, you can sort the Pelican website by best selling, and almost all of the best selling (single person sit-in) kayaks do not have any bulkheads. And I did not see any with Bow bulkheads.
Argo 100X (No bulkheads)
Argo 100XR (No bulkheads)
Sprint 100XR (Stern Bulkhead!!)
Venture 100 (No bulkheads)
Argo 100X Angler (No bulkheads)
Mission 100 (No bulkheads)
Trailblazer 100 NXT Recreational (No bulkheads)
Trailblazer NXT standard (No bulkheads)
Summit Kayak (No bulkheads)
Venture 100 (No bulkheads)
Maxim 100X (No bulkheads)
Argo 100X EXO (No bulkheads)
Magna 100 (No bulkheads)
(The list keeps going because they have a lot of models but I’m too lazy to look at all of them)
Point being almost none of the sit inside single person kayaks they sell have bulkheads. And from experience foam blocks don’t do much to help in a rescue, they just keep the boat from completely sinking.
Many of the pelican boats that look like they have bulkheads actually don’t, such as the nicer Argo models with the waterproof hatches. Turns out the hatches just have bags.
I would like to restate from a previous post, I am not saying they are useless kayaks, they certainly have their place, as calm, wind protected water close to shore doesn’t require anything more than a pfd if that. But I guess I am trying to make a point that much of the picking done on Pelican doesn’t just come out of nowhere as their quality is lower than most other companies. Keep in mind that the picture of the bent up Pelican was taken on the long island sound. Even more experience kayakers occasionally have issues on the sound, such as these two paddlers Police: Kayakers rescued after vessels overturn in Long Island Sound
This happened within half a mile of where I look the picture of this thread(it did happen in winter but they had drysuits indicating they had some experience, not sure what kind of boats they were using but I’m guessing touring).
A calm lake where you don’t have wind or current? A pelican is the perfect kayak! Small, light, stable, and inexpensive.
But when I see Pelicans, sun dolphins, etc. going way out into the sound or crossing the Hudson River I have an issue, and it is not an uncommon occurrence.
For example, one day the tour company I worked for had a group crossing to Pollepel Island (Hudson River). 3 recreational paddlers in kayaks not wearing PFD’s were paddling nearby and the heaviest man in that three person group fell over. He was separated from his boat and the other two had no idea what they were doing trying to get him back in. They were getting swept out from land as the current was either flooding or ebbing. If one of the guides in the tour group hadn’t spotted them it could have been ugly. I think many people are concerned with the safety of Pelican boats because they are so often seen in places they are unsafe for. Its really not fun reading articles about kayakers drowning or needing to get rescued by the coast guard. Nobody is immune to a change in weather conditions or a capsize on the water no matter the skill level and I am willing to bet almost everyone who has needed to be rescued has thought the words “It won’t happen to me” or “I won’t flip over”.
When you kayak, eventually you are going to end up swimming.
Sorry for the long response, I drank too much morning coffee!
Very cool canoe setup. I’m going to definitely recommend your idea to a few people this spring! And thank you for being one of the responsible ones, its great to see! Happy paddles!
We live up close to Lake Erie and I wouldn’t dream of taking the canoe or the OT Rec-kayak out on the lake. Many people do and do it safely as they wait for a calm as glass evening and paddle around close to shore. We have ours for the inland lakes and the creeks and rivers. Where we live on French Creek there is one outing each summer where we launch 450 paddlers in about an hour and 95% of them are in Pelicans or similar boats. It is sponsored by the Fire Department who ends up doing water rescues all summer and this year we had the Coast Guard there with about 6 people doing safety inspections if you wanted one. The creek is pretty deep in areas and one would think they would require or strongly suggest at least starting off with a PFD they do require you have one, but most are used as seat backs or under the deck or lashed on the back. Other than our rec-kayak and canoe I didn’t see anyone with added floatation and the coast guard folks when doing our inspection seemed puzzled about what we had added.
My point is no one at least around here is looking out for people that just don’t know better, and the people that do know better are reluctant to point out safety issues to people they don’t know. Even in the group of people we went with I had on my PFD and one woman told me she wasn’t a swimmer and I then suggested maybe she put on her PFD as it might not be a good day to learn. She did, I really didn’t have any idea about the others swimming abilities.
I don’t think it is as much about the boat pelican or other as just people having little knowledge about boating safety in general. People assume everyone else is doing it one way it must be right.
I was mainly trying to point out 1890’s comment “Some of them (referring to Pelicans) certainly seem very equivalent to or even better than some kayaks offered by Old Town or Wilderness systems, etc.”.
In a previous post I discussed buying used kayaks. Kayaks depreciate incredibly, and when on a low budget I think buying a new boat makes no sense compared to a used used boat. So my point is, instead of buying a new pelican for $300 you could instead buy a nicer used kayak for $300. My first kayak was in the lower cost Pelican price range, and was an entry level WS fiberglass sea kayak. Was it perfect? No. But usually used kayaks just need some new bungee and a little silicone on the bulkheads. If you find a used Pelican for $50 or Free, hard to beat the deal but you can certainly find kayaks with bulkheads in the near free range such as an old Pungo 120.
I feel I accidentally created too much hostility with this thread, maybe I should stay off the internet a while.
I think access to the sport for lower income folks is a good topic, although that is probably not what the topic was designed to be about. Even if someone buys into the sport at a lower cost and with a worse quality boat, it looks good to know not to store in direct sun or take it on the Sound.
I’ve seen posts cautioning against using Eddyline Skylarks too though, which do have bow and stern bulkheads to my knowledge, but just have a larger cockpit opening. The price tag is something like $1600 and I’m sure it’s very well made. So the expectations for a proper boat can get extreme.
FWIW, all Eddyline boats have bow and stern bulkheads, even their tiny 10-footer.
Not sure why anyone would caution against using a Skylark. It’s very well made and a good boat for rivers and inland lakes. It was my second boat and is still used by a family member. Cockpit measures 35" x 18.5" and takes a size 2.2 Seals sprayskirt.
Eddyline also has crazy good quality control.
If you find a used Pelican for $50 or Free, hard to beat the deal but you can certainly find kayaks with bulkheads in the near free range such as an old Pungo 120.<
Please send me the info on all the free or $50 kayaks out there available. I’ll buy some!
Suggest you review CL or FB.
Here’s an example
I can see calm water on ponds, but as the body of water gets larger, the potential for rough water increases - to say nothing of boat wakes, reflected waves etc. Also, paddlers frequently get blown offshore into rougher water. My objection to cheaper boats is that their lack of flotation makes them far less safe than better boats with watertight bulkheads. That said, if you can’t do a solo or assisted rescue, having a better boat usually isn’t going to make much difference.
Not my thing - but a great deal for the right customer!
