Hi Mike -
I don’t know what you read to reach your conclusion about “elitism”, but I will say that it’s not elitist to point out that the cheaper kayaks tend to have significant safety deficits involving things like bulkheads and deck lines. Manufacturers don’t care, because all they focus on is how cheaply they can produce the product and how big they can make their profit margin. That leaves consumers vulnerable, which is why many experienced paddlers speak up about the issue and look down on those products.
I have found, with a scan of Pelican’s website, that they are being pretty honest about what you can safely do with their kayaks. As in the cheap models such as this say good for “calm lakes and slow moving rivers.” Nothing like the Long Island Sound methinks.
You are implying that Pelican is misleading customers into doing something dangerous, which from what I’ve seen so far I disagree with.
Why would someone need deck lines and bulkheads on a small calm lake? Can Pelican charge an entry-level price and still include all the best features? I do think the concept of entry-level has its place.
I do also think safety information should be presented to kayak customers in the most upfront and clear way possible. I’m not sure if Pelican shoulders blame for a lack of customer education. I imagine some customers don’t listen as well.
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Funny this thread popped up again. Last year on a perfect day my wife, brother and I were having lunch at a waterfront spot when I gasped, “Pelicans!” (They were both WTF.) I explained this thread and those criticizing the little kayaks. There were dozens and dozens of them passing by along with a smattering of canoes likely all from the local outfitter. All manner of paddlers and groups having a great time.
We were on a canal, maybe thirty feet wide. Flat, protected, easy banks, plenty of people around including the hundreds of bicyclists along the towpath. The Pelican was a perfect boat for the circumstances and it was a most wonderful thing to see so many people out on the water. Not as wonderful as the good beer I was enjoying from the patio but, still pretty wonderful.
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I mentioned that I go for daily walks around the block in my flip flops in nice weather.
Someone posted that I was a fool for wearing cheap flip flops. Did I know how dangerous it was and how easy it was to get hurt by stepping on a nail, sprain my ankle, or have a car run over my toes, and that my feet will get very wet during a rain shower. They said it was sort of ok to wear flops inside the house, but not outside. They insisted I should get a pair of expensive waterproof reinforced toe Danner boots because they routinely hike the Appalachian Trail and considered by some to be elite walkers. They said they were just trying to be helpful so I would enjoy and be safe on my walk, and to never venture out on the PCT in my flops.
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Which beer please? We can take that on too.
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@MTL_Mike @Pam4095
I apologize if this post came off as elitist, it certainly was not the intent. However I do think some more cheaper recreational kayaks are often of low construction quality and borderline unsafe compared to other brands or used kayaks. From my experience, people I’ve seen purchase Sun Dolphins, Pelicans, etc. often don’t understand what they are buying and would have been better off getting a non-pelican used kayak. However, I certainly think there are many very responsible people with these kayaks who can enjoy them safely in the way they were intended.
Yet I still would never recommend one. I started kayaking on a very small budget and found with enough looking, you can find used plastic kayaks from reputable brands for less money than a Pelican. The first boat I purchased was $300 for a used Wilderness Systems Cape Horn (Fiberglass), not a perfect boat but much better than 300-400 for a new pelican. Many tour companies often sell used boats for cheap as well, a company I worked for this summer sold used WS Pungo 120’s for cheap and throw in a life jacket and paddle.
TLDR: If you get lucking and find a good deal on a pelican like Andy posted above its probably worth grabbing. But I think most people are better off searching fb marketplace to get a good deal on something rather than buying a new Pelican at Walmart.
If you’ve ever tried to tow a swamped boat to shore you’d understand the value of bulkheads. It’s very difficult even if you are towing with another kayak. I can’t imagine what it would be like towing as a swimmer.
In totally benign conditions it might not be a safety issue, but it could be a laborious pain in the butt.
The other issue is that with large open area under the deck there is room for water to enter. And it will. It is impossible even with boat over boat to get it all out.
Things could be improved with drain holes and bulkheads to cut down the amount of water and where it goes so it could be rescued.
As it is. capsize and find out for yourself how your plan on getting to shore works. It literally is an exhausting drag. I see Pelicans have a little styrofoam so the boat won’t go right to the bottom but still not enough to keep much water out.
Some rec boats have a bulkhead at one end only and nothing at the other end. The nothing end will be pinned with the bulkhead end straight up… Called Hells Needle. Its a bit… to rescue that .
Entry level has its place but Pelican cut too many corners. Its a fine boat for floating a Florida River where a capsize means stand up and maybe you can catch the boat floating downstream… Mid lake no way.
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As long as it’s not actively raining or snowing I will wear flip flops to walk the dog year round, in 10° to 100° weather. Just did it today. Easier than lacing up the winter boots. Hey, the dog is barefoot, I might as well have exposed toes. 
- List item
weather…
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For around 20 bucks or less a yoga ball can be bought and inflated into the bow or stern or both depending on bulkheads. This will greatly improve the flotation/recovery situation in the event of capsize.
A cheaper lighter alternative is Walmart sells these tough beach play balls 2 for $5 this time of year. They are around 10-12” and can be deflated and re-inflated also. I added a 10” play ball and then a 15” yoga ball to our OT 10’ rec-kayak in the bow and it has a rear bulkhead/hatch and it floats like a cork when upside down.
They also sell peanut yoga balls in different sizes that will conform to fit a kayak. I use 2 in my canoe for air bag flotation. They are quite tough, hold air for a long time and don’t weigh a lot.
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I beg to differ. There just seems to be a bias against the Pelican brand (which now encompasses Wilderness Systems, Perception, Dagger). Time and again I’ve read comments like ‘ugh it’s a Pelican’ or someone commenting on how cheap or unsafe they are. True they don’t have bulkheads… but as an example, TRAK kayaks (the skin on frame boats that retail in the $4,000 range) don’t either yet it seems that whenever the topic of boat safety comes up there is always a comment about how unsafe Pelican kayaks are. The bias is practically preprogrammed.
DanielD’s reply above is spot on. Pelican states what conditions the kayak is best suited for. As the largest manufacturer of kayaks in the world they produce inexpensive boats that get people into the sport which benefits us all.
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I think I made this point once earlier in this thread a year ago, but thought I’d bring it up again. There are people that only seem to consider the cheapest options when they talk about “Pelican kayaks”, but Pelican makes a lot of different kayaks.
Some of them certainly seem very equivalent to or even better than some kayaks offered by Old Town or Wilderness systems, etc.
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If the paddler never needs to be rescued, no problem. But If the thing capsizes it is a waterlogged, heavy mess that is nearly impossible to empty out or get to shore.
A couple of times I did safety on demo days days for a local shop that sold kayaks and canoes. One of those times a kid came out and capsized the big rec kayak he was in - entirely on purpose. I was expecting him to do it when I realized he was keeping an eye on his parents to see when they looked away.
Getting the kid out of the water was no problem, he scrambled up onto my back deck and got a fun ride back to the dock.
But it took two people in their own boats, float bags and I forget what else to get the blasted rec boat back to the dock.
Many will never accept that occasionally paddling POS cheap kayaks, aka Pelicans, in generally protected waters in good weather is not inherently hazardous to your life. Oh, but what if ________ happens and then you are surely doomed.
Do they apply this same thinking to every activity in their life?
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Your comment proves the point about blatant bias (aka elitism) this thread has turned into.
There are plenty of non Pelican kayaks out there with no bulk heads or other features yet it seems that only Pelican kayaks are unsafe.
Even the “safest” kayak can be a death trap in certain conditions.
Whatever…
they are best suited for upright only… Capsizes happen not because of conditions for the most part but because of inattention
Those of you for the Pelicans who have one, have you tipped it over? Not a bias from a keyboard warrior here. Everyone who comes on a trip with me as a guide has to tip over. You would be amazed how many panic.
PS I started with a Perception Keowee. $299 in 1989. Yes it got me started but I quickly found out its shortcomings. As you advance you want to push the envelope… and when I took it out in waves I found how bad my brace was… I was glad the wind was pushing me to shore.
So when you call someone elitist from a keyboard you have NO idea of how they got there… There is a lot of experience good and bad. We are just trying to give you the basics of what you can and cannot do and save you from our stupid mistakes and we have all done some doozies.
My neighbors have safe rec kayaks… They installed drain plugs, stuffed the hull with flotation, practiced falling out and getting in and have a blast on our 3x1/2 mile lake jumping wakes( yes there be motorboats), falling out and getting in. Do they want to advance further.? Nope They are 80 years old and happy.
Some of the shortcomings of rec kayaks could be mitigated by better outfitting, knowledgeable sales people and willing to listen customers. Sadly dedicated paddle stores are becoming scarce.
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I think the basics can be given effectively. I do not think beginners can be saved from making mistakes. This is part of how people learn any new skill generally.
The best way for beginners to stay beginners, or give up on the idea of kayaking, is to not go on the water. The more one reads this forum, the better it sounds to avoid the the water, at least for me. Probably this is my fault for reading too much, but I think helpful messages, especially ones laden with warnings, can become discouraging messages easily.
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Your neighbors sound like great folks. Never too young to have fun in or out of a kayak when you know your limitations and are comfy with the appropriate conditions.
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Too much focus on the kayak itself, not the skills or mindset of the person using. People bought POS Pintos, Yugos, and Hyundai and probably they covered the range from horrible to excellent drivers. The cars fit the requirements of the owner at that time.
Pelicans and Sundolphins ARE horrible boats related to safety, performance, fittings, seat comfort, etc. I know because I have 3 $200 Pelicans that are exceptionally stable and are great beater boats to go down shallow rivers and for people that may kayak a few times a year. Accept that owners of these inexpensive boats make up of the majority of kayakers in the US and probably most are perfectly happy with what they use.