PFD does more than float you.
NO. Anyone who paddles should be a competent swimmer.
I and my husband actually dealt with someone who was kayaking but, when he ended thrashing around alarmingly in 3 feet of water getting out of his boat, turns out could not swim. Even with a PFD on this guy was on his way to finding a way to drown. First and last time, we gave him info on the adult swim classes taught by YMCA
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I agree completely
Risk is the key word and the greater the risk the greater the need for a PFD is I believe what your thoughts are. This is true for sure. Seeing as how I don’t believe anyone here or even the governmental bodies that regulate PFDs is saying there are different types of PFDs that diminish to zero based around the presumed risk of where you are and what you are doing on the water. There are classifications, but nothing that diminishes based on risk. So wearing a PFD is a yes/no proposition.
So you need one until you don’t need one. Then we have to look at when any given individual may need one compared to any other individual. Then we need to think about what could change an individuals need for one from one minute to the next.
I don’t know let me think of a wild reason someone’s need may change in an instant. Say you are on a dead calm river in deep water and you duck under a low hanging branch to find you disrupted a wasp hive and got stung 50 times and dove into the water to escape them only to find now you are suffering from breathing issues or something from the stings. Pretty unlikely to happen but it is the first of 100s of things that could happen that are not likely to happen I thought of.
So in that case you were in a close to zero need situation that quickly changed to a high need situation.
So the only way to logically cover all the situations for all the people is adopting a zero tolerance policy.
Now the conversation changes to how bad is it really wearing a PFD on the water for the very most casual of paddling people because most of the serious paddlers are always under what we might call a danger level that requires a PFD. If I get out of the canoe to take a dip to cool off in a lake how much more fun/pleasure etc do I get without the PFD on. For me it is not that much different except I don’t have to tread water.
The big reason I see people not wearing PFDs around here is number one they don’t because most other people don’t. Second is people float the river as a relaxing water activity like going to the beach and it is still about tanning even though we know how bad that is for them. Third is they have cheap PFDs and they are not comfortable for paddling and rub in the wrong spots. Forth is they get hot in them.
For the younger people I see on the river the not cool factor is big. Pier pressure on a subtle level comes into play.
Again it is still personal as far as I’m concerned and an individuals right to do what they want.
I do not understand why the topic is controversial at all and can not be talked about rationally between adults on a forum where it is one of the central parts of the hobby.
I don’t understand why there has to be acrimony when discussing this topic either. Matter of fact, as we discussed this topic, despite some of the conversation not being the most pleasant, it prompted my thinking about swimming ability and being a paddler, something I’ve done with my own family.
I am a strong swimmer who was taught by my father (a former competitive water polo player), and reinforced that teaching through spending my childhood summers in the rivers and lakes of western Michigan, including Lake Michigan. My now grown children were competitive swimmers, and I spent a bunch of years in the Army that required regular swim training and tests, so as an adult swimming was a regular part of my life.
That said, when risks are discussed perhaps wearing a PFD should be discussed while discussing swimming ability. As an example, recently my wife, son, grandson and I took a canoe camping trip into the St. Regis Canoe area. We required our grandson to wear his PFD, not only because of legal requirements, but also because he’s still learning to swim well. Additionally, all 3 of us adults wore vests even though we could have easily swam across the lakes we were traversing. We wore them because it would make any recovery with a weak swimmer (Grandson) easier and more effective. Another thing that we do with our 4 grandchildren (all weak swimmers) is we require them to swim with their PFD. Hopefully, preventing a panic state in the water. PFD or not, panicking is never good.
This brings it all the way back to the beginning, use of terms such as “always” doesn’t allow for discussion and what has been said before “it depends”.
I would have been on the water alone today if there hadn’t been a tornado watch in effect all day. I would have done some roll practice and wet exits and reentry. Probably paddled in the rain too. Instead my kayak which is still on the car is ready to go tomorrow.
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I wear my pfd while paddling always. I can’t swim if I am, for some reason, rendered unable to do so. Same as when I took my son fishing in our little boat. The last thing I would want is for him to watch me drown because I unexpectedly fell over board.
That is how I row.
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One reason the topic is so contentious is the matter of control. I prepare my boat to launch by rote and won’t accept help. The routine ensure that I will have my standard gear and PDF. When I wear a PDF, I feel that I have a high level of control. A PDF isn’t a “Life Saver”; it only gives you and/or a good Samaritan time to react to an “unexpected event”.
It’s naive to think you can return to shore to get your PDF when you encountrer danger. If you end up in the water and your possessions are floating away,
your choice might be a hat, phone case, PDF or the boat. Your decision to ditch the PDF tells me what you feel about the value of your life, so I’m sure my life is lower on the list. If I approach that scene, my choice would be to retrieve your vest. Then come to your assistance by throwing it to you while I assess your situation and demeanor. One thing is certain. You won’t be getting in my boat.
You can decide on the value of your own life, but don’t add another level of decision making to a very complex problem. Don’t expect another person to control a situation that you intentionally or unwittingly allowed to go out of control.
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Another reason it maybe contentious is people read things that weren’t said. When did I ever say that the PFD is sitting on the shore? I guess since I never said that or implied it, matter of fact I said the opposite (I obey the law), I must not be naive.
Additionally, there’s a lot of assumptions being made about my expectations for assistance and my “loss of control of the situation”. Part of my decision making about both wearing a PFD and paddling alone is ensuring that I don’t need assistance or “lose it”. Which brings us to the “unexpected”, sometimes the situations that I paddle in (like in the OP) are so benign that the likelihood of the “unexpected” being bad let alone fatal are so small that it’s almost an impossibility. I don’t live my life or make decisions what I will or will not do based on miniscule possibilities.
Further, don’t be absurd with the hyperbole about valuing my own life. Do you drive on american highways? You must not value your life because you’re a lot more likely to lose your life there than I am when I’ve decided to not wear my PFD.
Some things are in my control some are not.
If someone doesn’t wear their PFD I’ll be fine.
Everyone is a bad swimmer in fast cold water.
That is the kind of water I paddle and row most.
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Valid points. You have a right to be defensive. That’s why I pointed out that you can make decisions about your own life. A comparison would be shopping between nearby stores, and moving the car a short distance, maybe a block. At some point you need a judgement call. How far before buckling the seat belt - open lot, slow street traffic . . . The distance is your call - nobody has to jump in to save you. My “decision” affects me. Just me. “My” decision is to buckle by rote, always because it protects “me” from my distraction. My son-in-law regularly gets in a car, as a driver or passenger, and “automatocally” does not buckle his belt until the bell chimes for blocks. Its “automatic,” for him to neglect the seat belt.
OK. Maybe poor comparison. It’s the same in a boat. It became a habit for me to check my son-in-law. I do a long boat prep and other paddlers may be a mile away before I catch up. On one occasion, I caught up as the group approached open water. I see he was sitting on his vest. He ended up getting vertigo as we entered the open water with 18 inch waves. He couldn’t safely put the jacket on so we curtailed the trip. It wasn’t pleasant. He didn’t mean to interfere with the trip, but he bloody well did.
This is an extreme example. Years ago, a friend was using a nail gun; a crazy nail glanced off and punctured his eye. The clear gel leaked out and the optic nerve got infected. He almost lost his other eye. He now wears a pirate patch and safety glasses automatically before he touches a tool.
It is your call on the vest. Just realize that people are passionate about some things and don’t want bad things to happen. For example, the forum just had a tragic post about a health incident on the water. Some topics are vivid reminders of automatic, conditioned acts that require no judgement. Like what day should a cop wear body armor - granted, maybe not to the mailbox. Your call on the vest. Sit on it. Strap it to the bungee cords. Put it in a hatch. Tow it behind on a string. Its all cool to me unless we go out together, because my life could depend on it. Just as cool as if drinking a beer together, no offense or bitterness intended, I’d let you know with a grin: if you’re on the water without a PDF and call for help, I’ll come to assist. But I won’t risk my life to safe you. As long as you respect that. We just have a better chance if we both prepared for the worse. Automatically. That all I’m saying.
Agreed, and when in those conditions, I would wear a PFD.
“Prepared for the worst” isn’t a bad way to start a paddling trip. It is just that not all paddling trips nor “the worst” are the same.
I debated whether to take the bait on this, but why not. It’s a long tread, so I’m sure all of this has been said before but:
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I ALWAYS wear my PFD. Everyone I paddle with ALWAYS wears a PFD. In 20-years I can think of one instance when someone didn’t wear a PFD. I never paddled with them again. I didn’t lose any sleep over it, and they probably didn’t either.
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You don’t wear a PFD to help you swim. You wear a PFD to keep your head above water when you can no longer swim. Might be exertion, cold water or some other physical impairment that you weren’t planning for. We all do our best to manage risk, but bad things can happen even in low risk conditions.
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PFD is only part of a good risk management plan, but it is the part that keeps you alive until other measures can kick in.
Putting on a PFD is something that I can do every time I get on the water to reduce my risk and hopefully get me home safely. I’m OK with you making your own decision. I won’t change your mind, and you won’t change mine, and that’s OK.
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On a perfectly normal day on the water The unexpected can and does happen. I posted this last summer.
You can argue the risks are low and that is true. That becomes a moot point when something does happen. You talk about the risk on the HWY, but left out that cars have air bags and seat belts to help prevent fatal outcomes when things go bad.
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Air bags inflate once then disappear and you have nothing. I was in a strip mall where you park perpendicular to the stores yesterday. Started to back up person came by so fast I thought coos were chasing him. I mean he had to be doing 40 or near it. No clue how he made the turn in the road. Lucky I always back up slow. Anything is possible. If he hit me with no belt in I could care less.
I would never paddle with someone not wearing a PFD. I have enough problems without adding them. They put me at risk. So what ever direction they went I’d be heading in the opposite. Same goes for drysuit and the rest.
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Thanks, one and all for your input. My intent was not to change anyone’s mind, but perhaps change how you think about these “musts”, not necessarily your conclusion.
That said, everyone have addressed the “always PFD”, but very few have said anything about “never alone”. I find it interesting that the one seems more acceptable than the other, but I could see in some situations paddling alone could get you in more trouble than being sans PFD in other situations.
I paddle in groups, I paddle alone, but I always wear a PFD. You need to manage the risk in each situation. To me, these are two very different issues.