Hi, my name is Dave and

A lot of people couldn’t paddle very much if they followed the “never alone” rule; in contrast always following the “wear a PFD” rule would not ever prevent them from paddling.

We all take calculated risks. We all want to paddle. You do what you can to make the activity safe enough for your own risk level.

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Our local paddling groups instituted a PFD required rule at least a few years ago, because it is impossible to vet 20 or 30 paddlers who come on an as they wish basis. Many for the first time.

The most interesting part of those first couple of paddles after the rule was who found it upsetting. Not a single kayaker in the bunch was on the water without a PFD, on and zipped, on those first couple of paddles after the policy was announced. For the kayakers this was normal practice. But the canoeists in the group were making a huge deal of it.

Those of us in kayaks found it a bit funny.

Not all open boaters feel that way :wink:

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Eckilson, I do know that. Sorry if that was too broad.

Might be a regional thing - around here (southern New England) you just don’t find experienced paddlers (except maybe for racers and paddle boarders) that don’t wear PFDs. I paddle with lots of groups both formal and informal, and it just never happens.

All true. My bottom line is I feel more in control, because it puts me in control. I look at those troop in Afghanistan with that gear and that body armor in devastating heat. A PDF is simil
ar in bulk but better fitting and a feather in comparison. If you can paddle a cross wind course or maximize wind exposure, the cooling is a welcome relief.

Nobody on this forum will tell you when it’s Ok NOT to wear a vest. That’s professionalism. - it’s the difference between a rec pastime and a serious boater.

I learned about bike helmet. I went on a nearby back road to test a new derailleur set up on my kid’s bike. The bike was undersized and I was load testing it on a short incline. The chain slipped on a short shift and I rolled like a weeble. I read that your head is 10 lbs and the g-force from a fall is “x”, so a fall from 4 ft means you have to hold “y” lbs with your neck muscles. Ahhh! What do they know - that my head would hit the ground and that I’d say “whoa”, didn’t think I’d need a helmet at 4 mph. Ironically, the only person who would be safe is an airhead. OK, not funny. A few years later, I came off the bike years later. I knew the speed was 20 mph because I had just looked up after accelerating and saw a squirrel jumping through the front spokes. Wouldn’t you know my head hit the only rock in that area and it ruined my favorite helmet.

You’re a new member. People are genuinely concerned. You just got to get used to that. It happens here. Stay safe.

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It can be variable around here, for both kayakers and canoeists. But in this evening paddle groups used to be more so with canoeists.

That said, it only took a couple of paddles before the complaints stopped. Hasn’t been questioned for a long time in this group.

I found the analogy to wearing safety glasses, safety shoes, ear protection, no jewelry, etc normal industrial safety practices quite good in the PFD discussion. I went thru a tool & die apprentice program for a major company between the age of 17 and 21 and safety was drilled into us constantly. Even before that my dad got me steel toe shoes and made me wear them for grass cutting. Something I’m willing to bet no one here does. As a kid in school we wore safety glasses in shop class so it was a natural progression to industry. The one exception to the above was hearing protection was introduced about 25 years into my career and damage was done to my ears by then.

As I progressed in industry it took me to many different locations in the country and around the world and I got to see a lot of places didn’t adhere to the strict rules I learned as a young man. People doing assembly work didn’t wear safety glasses but they may when doing higher risk tasks. It was kind of left up to the person. I found it very odd and when in these settings I would put mine on out of habit.

A lot of this is about forming a good habit and not needing to debate a gray area with yourself when they come up.

I agree with the OP solo paddling can have the unknown risk potential greater than not wearing a PFD depending on conditions. I also agree the habit of wearing a PFD does not have any overlap with paddling alone. The overlap is in risk assessment and if you assume risk is higher solo then you would be more likely to PFD when alone. But if you have formed the good habit to always PFD then it is a non factor. Just like I will wear steel toe shoes and eye protection when mowing with someone watching and also when alone.

In short almost all of life is safer if people are around you to react in the event you have a mishap.

I don’t make any separation between canoes, rec-kayaks, kayaks, jon boats, sail boats, small power boats, etc. I have never been on a cruise ship but I have to think I wouldn’t wear a PFD when having dinner with the captain or even walking around the deck looking at the ocean. It would be pier pressure likely.

So I would like to ask everyone to conceder getting a pair of high top leather work boots with steel toes, safety glasses with side shields and ear plugs to be used for grass mowing. Long paints and long sleeve shirts are also a good idea. It only takes a second to slip on grass and pull that mower onto your foot. Likewise quite a few of us work on our boats grinding and drilling and cutting this and that. Use those same safety glasses when working on the boat. Also with any chemicals and glues and such. Even when making a GL paddle. Safety First as they say.

Paddling alone is a personal choice. You live with the consequences and endanger no one else.

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I would also hold then that paddling alone without a PFD will endanger no one else. I’m not saying it is smart to do but when alone the only life in danger is your own.

I guess if someone paddling with me or I encounter in trouble without a PFD is in trouble I can become in danger trying to help them. As others here have posted I have also seen what someone struggling unable to swim can do to a rescuer in the water or in a boat. I suppose I can just sit and watch them drown or maybe toss them a life ring PFD or seat cushion if I had one with me and still be in no danger myself.

Maybe that’s another thread if you find someone capsized struggling in the water without a PFD on what would you do?

They are different issues, but they have similarities. The first that they are maxims often stated in the same breath by an instructor or other “expert”, so the question becomes; why ignore the one and not the other?

Secondly, both are risk mitigation tools. As you said we need to manage the risk in each situation, and in some cases traveling alone is a bigger risk than not wearing a PFD in others. Examples from my own paddling in the OP I mentioned I didn’t wear a PFD last Saturday on an outing. An outing that we PLANNED to get in and out of the canoe for swimming. We were rarely in water over our heads. The possibility of any serious “unexpected” event was almost non-existent. In contrast, paddling the Chattooga in a WW kayak or a canoe on a remote river or lake alone presents a much greater possibility for a serious “unexpected” event.

So, since you see them as such different issues, why? and how?

No PFDs DUMBASSES placed rescuers at risk. Strong currents by Fire Island inlet. No experience and in little rec kayaks. Not the first rescued this year there.

I did two tours in Afghanistan, there is no comparison to the risks paddling and swimming in a calm, warm lake without a PFD and the risks walking around in Afghanistan without body armor.

I’m actually not a new member. I just haven’t posted in a long time. Even then, do you think condescending replies will help a new paddler? BTW, I am not a new paddler, I have paddled for decades.

I agree completely. When I don’t wear a PFD, I am in no way endangering anyone else. Of course based on the OP, some may ask what about your wife? We were both exiting and entering the canoe (practicing self-rescue?) to swim without our PFDs.

No PFD definitely played a part in this incident, but based on limited information in the article there were other contributing factors. I wonder even if they were wearing PFDs if they would have still needed rescue, just a little higher on the pylons.

Years ago, after I had fallen in the 40° Edisto River, I came home and started a post , " If you don’t wear a PFD, you are a fool."

Probably went on as long as this one.

That day, I had mine on, but I was dressed in shorts and a T-shirt. The air temp was in the 70s. When we capsized after hitting a stump, I was briefly under water. The PFD popped me
back up, and then the fun began.
I wear it every time I’m on the water and also dress better for conditions.

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At a bare minimum it could have made the rescue much easier.

Indeed. I thought a lot about my near miss with the hornet nest last week and how my regular pfd would impede me from diving under the water and swimming to escape them. But even one sting could put me into anaphylaxis so I ordered new CO2 cartridges for my old waist pack pfd (manual pull type) and will wear that on the paddle board on this creek in Summer, and my Astral vest when the water is cooler.

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Possibly or caused an entanglement. No way of really knowing, and I would agree that these people probably should have worn a PFD, but that conclusion isn’t reached based on “always wear a PFD”.

So I now always wear a pfd when boating. Every once in a blue moon I will still paddle alone.

I used to paddle alone quite a bit as a video boater on the new and gauley rivers and I used to lead scout groups where we didn’t require kids to wear pfds.

So my behavior has changed concerning pfds and paddling alone.

PFD use may not be required depending on what stretch of water I’m on but since I’m always wearing my pfd, legality isn’t something I even think about.

I’m not the rugged individualist I once was. I’ve chosen to be a paddle educator but the aca isn’t driving my passion for wearing a pfd. My passion for personal flotation devices comes from experience.

I’ve seen conditions change very rapidly. I once led a scout group across a lake. Things deteriorated very quickly. Large waves, lightning, and wind driven rain appeared to come out of nowhere. I took solace in knowing that everyone was wearing their pfd. I just didn’t like the look of some clouds off in the distance and perhaps my second sense kicked in but I was extremely thankful I made the call for everyone to wear pfds before leaving the shore. Nobody ended up flipping (6 tandem canoes) but we were unable to stay together and we were all fighting to make it to cover, a small island in the lake. If anyone had flipped they would have been blown down to the end of the lake, a mile and a half. At least they would be wearing a pfd if that had occurred and I took solace in that thought while fighting my way across the lake.

Another time I got surprised by a dirachio. So stuff just happens. Blue skies turn dark and all heck breaks loose. I was glad to have the pfd on during 60+ mile per hour winds in a class IV rapid and while sitting in the eddy below, trying not to get blown back into the rapid.

Paddling alone is just something I don’t do much of. Although recently I sent the rest of a group on ahead (I was waiting for someone to show up for instruction at the put-in) and ended up paddling alone. So I did 4.9 miles of class II-III whitewater by myself. I skirted around the IIIs and cut down on the play (just stopped to surf twice). It wasn’t smart. I do have that stretch of river pretty dialed in. Paddled it in 43 minutes. So it wasn’t what I planned to do or really wanted to do but it all worked out. I’ll readily admit that on some familiar streams I’m at ease paddling alone. I sharpen my focus a bit and am perhaps a bit less complacent.

Overall, I agree that paddling alone isn’t a smart idea. Neither is roll practice or hiking alone, or skiing alone, or bike riding and I’ve done all that many times. I guess I’ve just never had the experience where I’m hurt or scared all alone waiting for someone to rescue me and started doubting my solo choice.

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