Thank you for your service…I sorta like to think that PFD’s in benign conditions are like motorcycle helmets…they’re for the first responders…makes their job easier…
As a motorcyclist, I don’t think there is such a thing as benign conditions on the road. I am constantly on the lookout for someone trying to kill me.
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When I was into motorcycling I wore a helmet 99.9% of the time. The couple of times I skipped it for a short jaunt I felt vulnerable and exposed. I now have the same feeling without a PFD, though I didn’t always wear one in the past.
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I guess I was thinking about all the Harley riders I see without helmets…them and the (?)spouce-girlfriend on the back…
I’ll admit, if I see aBMW rider or even a crotch rocket rider, they have helmets on
Yea, I’d never do that. I guess if I was paddle walking along at a motorcycle rally, maybe, but not out on the road. Then again, I wouldn’t be at a motorcycle rally.
Good to know that you aren’t new to tbe forum, and two tours says you have been around. I absolutely agree that there is no comparison to paddling a kayak and a war zone. I’ll go back to the OP to figure out where I got the impression you were a joining member. Oh, the heading says, “HI, my name is Dave”. I missed the caveat pointing out status (new/returning, etc.). Sorry that I thought you were a new member, but I don’t automatically think being new to the forum means someone lacks experience. Totally unrelated.
Actually, I’m the new one. Hope you don’t think I’m new to kayaking, but I do admit it’s a bit intimidating interacting with some of these members. Like being JV and going to Major League. I found out quickly what I don’t know. My comment about wearing a Life Vest was definitely not intended as a slight to soldiers in a war zone, but I should rephrase it all the same. "In my opinion wearing a Life Vest in a kayak is . . . Unpleasant and very unnerving, but a snap compared to body armor. Mine was only 21 layers of kevlar and I hated wearing it. Especially the sweat that ran so thick it collected in your boots. That sweat actually degraded the performance of the Vest and physical effects degraded reaction. Still, I’m somewhat ashamed to admit that I stopped wearing mine. I decided that I’d rather take my chances than suffer that infernal Device. And I acknowledge even that was nothimg compare by half to what you guys did, and you did it twice. I’m on your side Dave.
I agree, not good to ever be condescending to anybody. If you read my post again. You’ll see it was mostly examples of why “I” wear a Life Vest and agreed with you that it’s your decision not to wear one. I don’t trust “myself” to make a distinctions between when and when not to wear it.
You’ve done a great service. Hope this clears up anything that I worded. - awkwardly. Becsuse I think we have more in common than not. I still want to to be safe.
We all want to be safe. I don’t do the things I do because they’re unsafe, I do the things I do despite the risk because sometimes it’s worth it whether it is beautiful scenery, absolute solitude and the accompanying peace or even simply the sense of accomplishment. As I’ve said previously, I find it interesting that people are so adamant about PFDs, but willing to allow for paddling alone. In my experience some of my solo adventures present more risk than those times I’ve not worn my PFD.
Seems like a false equivalence. I always wear a PFD because it is easy to do, and I am hard pressed to think to think a a reason not to - you feel different, and that is fine. I often paddle alone because I have no one to paddle with, or I just want to paddle alone. Recognizing that paddling alone is more risky I always wear my PFD (have it on anyway), try to dress for the conditions and stay well within my skill level. Accepting the risk in one area (paddling alone) doesn’t mean I should accept an unrelated risk in another (not wearing a PFD). That’s like saying I speed anyway, so why wear my seat belt.
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Dave, I do agree with that. Like I said, nobody will tell you not to wear a vest. I’m letting you know what I do because I don’t want to decide. You’re back because you clearly enjoy the company. The big problem I have is the volume of information, then going back to reassimilate things I read but didn’t understand the first time through.
You certainly know who you are and what you want. I have no doubt you can handle yourself, and that’s a good place to be. If you feel offended by anything I say, I expect to get both stomped with both feet. I can deal with it, as long as you at least go back and reevaluate. Not to agree. But at least tovsee whether it was my intention to offend. I hope I don’t give that impression to anybody. Anybody!
If had members tell me they don’t believe something I said. That don’t bother me, because its up to me to prove. I can do that, but only if they say the magic word - prove it.
You’re a firebrand. You hit hard. Solo trips, touche - Guilty. That’s another story about my precautions that nobody want to hear. Welcome back.
Ha! To your point Dave. I’ve come across my brother fishing in his big boat and he says. “What are you doing out here in that thing. I’m going back in because it’s too rough.” Half of my trips are solo. Especially the long ones.
C’mon isn’t Sturgis happening? 400,00 strong…I don’t care, but I’ve heard it’s (infectious)
If you’re going to claim a false equivalence, you should show how. I didn’t say they were exactly the same, but I see similarities as I pointed out in my previous response to you.
Speaking of false equivalence, equating not wearing a PFD in the conditions I described in my OP doesn’t have near the level of consequence of speeding in a car without a seatbelt. Additionally, in no way did I say since I’m paddling in a dangerous way, so why wear a PFD which would analogous to your statement. Matter of fact I said the opposite,
I thought I did show how - linking the acceptance of risk in one area as the justification to accept risk in another. That seems to be what you are doing by linking PFDs and paddling alone.
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I did link the two, but where did I say accepting risk in one area is justification to accept risk in another? I said, they’re both presented as “maxims” and they’re both risk mitigation measures. I wondered why the rigidity about the one and not the other considering their similarities.
Definitely not my scene.
This is really more of thought exercise for me, and I’m not really offended. Maybe a little perturbed with people who don’t actually read what I wrote jumping to conclusions, making assumptions and arguing with things I didn’t say or imply. But, it’s all good.
If I was really offended, I should be offended by all the people who said they’ll not paddle with me because I don’t wear a PFD when I clearly stated I don’t wear a PFD in very specific circumstances and if paddling with a group requiring wearing a PFD I would.
Firebrand? I’m just looking for honest discussion and thoughts and opinions even those unlike my own.
That’s a good idea with the inflatable.
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Interesting. Doesn’t an inflatable PFD create more possibility for the “unexpected”? Not a gotcha, just trying to point out that there is room for a different conclusion based on a specific set of circumstances.
BTW, I wear an inflatable on my paddleboard.
I have a question for the group. We all want paddling to be as safe as possible I believe.
So my question is if your state passed a new law that required wearing a PFD when ever on the water for everyone in all paddle boats would you support it? Oh in the same law it also stated they found there is increased safety in numbers and it also made paddling alone against the law where you would have to have a partner within 100 yards at all times. Lets say first offence was $500.