High angle paddle(too long) with low angle stroke?

True. Too many notes. There are only too many note that the ear can hear. Thst was my favorite line. Maybe you could be a real help to me if you could edit a post and show me the excess words. I’m a quick learner.

Ok thanks :+1:

@PaddleDog52 For me it’s now about optimization, to improve the speed over distance. not about pure speed, I’ll run at my sustainable speeds and push to the point where I’m hurting and feel like I cant go on and hold it there until I hit 3 miles then I log it and my conditions for doing.

last outing conditions were terrible wind was coming from the west at a steady 30-40 mph, since the lake is in a valley there, when that happens the wind trying to get out of the eastern side of the lake at the dam, will follow up into the fingers so you’ll also get winds going northerly into the north facing fingers.

we also had micro-bursts lasting up to a minute in the 60 mph range. would hit from some random direction, though mostly from the SE. One was so bad it nearly stripped the paddle from my hands and felt like it completely stopped the boat like I hit a log or something. It didn’t but it made mg go from 5.3 mph running into the wind to 3.2 mph for the time of the micro-burst.

Over 7.7 miles I only managed a measly 4.9 mph average speed with top *sustained speeds of 5.6 mph. This was the poorest conditions I’ve ever been in, at-least in that boat.

(*sustained 5 minutes or more.)

but this was more about a workout than trying for speed numbers, So I deliberately picked my courses, to either be cross wind getting hit by the windblown waves perpendicular to the boat or if I had to run with he wind hitting astern at about a 60-70 degree angle to keep me from being able to surf, and then running into the wind as much as possible. making everything as bad as possible to account for the upcoming race should conditions be as bad this year as they were last year.

The winning speed last year with conditions similar in touring class, was 4.8 mph in the three mile race so I figure I stand a chance this year in bad conditions based on last weeks numbers.

I won’t be fully optimized, I know my ideal blade surface area, and length, I just don’t have an axe that meets all my ideal numbers for paddling style for racing. Maybe next year.

I don’t think my edits would be very helpful. You need to sound like you, not an editor.
I would offer three tips … take 'em or leave 'em.

  1. Focus on only one or two points in each post.
  2. Data is great, but too much data is, well, too much. Don’t ask readers to wade through a bunch of charts or data sets. A single good one can be more convincing and will be more widely appreciated.
  3. Use sarcasm sparingly. Those who know you will understand it, but the rest of us may not.
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I feel for the reader. Your suggestions are appropriate for this format, and I agree with everything you suggest. Many people buy a magazine because they don’t want to read a book. They come here for bullet points. I can’t help them. I don’t have the bonafides to compete with other members. In fact, if I am associating the correct content with you, I believe you probably have more formal training, kayaking skills, and probably paddled more challenging environments than me. So why would you follow my sugggestions? It’s up to me to verify my findings. That probably doesn’t answer adequately, but it’s reaching the limit of comprehension.

Sarcasm is my way of dealing with duplicity. It’s my way of dealing with the devious, cruel and unforgivable treatment of women is sarcasm. My record stands, so I have no other excuse. It beats my alternative approach.

I’m at an impasse. I post stats from one trip for 8.5 miles of 1 hour and 45 min duration. The graph gives a visual representation of the results, but I have 8 hours of explanation that I condense into several points that flies over the heads of most readers. Part of the reason is that it reads like an opinion.

I thought this was the right medium to share info I wish someone shared with me when I started kayaking. The recent comments emphasize your point competely, which is why I plan to start deleting some of my content. You should feel perceptive about the feedback, because I’m basically using your points. I misread the desire for technical information. I’m happy to carry on discussions via direct messaging. In more recent months, I have been doing that.

Solid suggestion.

To answer the OP’s original question, any Euro paddle can be used at a high or low angle. While paddles are designed for one or the other for optimal efficiency, you’re not going to be consigned to Davy Jones locker if you decide to use the paddle for a different paddling angle for which it is designed. Most people that I know who use wing paddles use then as low angle paddles. None of them to date have died horribly to the best of my knowledge.

I use an Ikelos 220 paddle that is too long for me. I wanted an more aggressive paddle than my Bending Branches low angle paddle that wore out at the ferrule. A friend of mine for whom money has little meaning bought the 220 Ikelos and after using it for about a month, decided he did not like it. Shoulder issues and more effort to paddle. He sold it to me for $90. I couldn’t pass up the savings for an essentially new paddle for a savings of about $400+.

While a bit too long as a high angle paddle for me, it works fine as a low angle paddle. I tend to switch from a high angle to a low angle style depending on how I feel and conditions. In high winds and rough conditions I find a low angle style to be more stabile.

Speed is only important to me as a long distance paddler interested in exploring as it enables me to get to places in a day paddle that most other cannot get to. I couldn’t care less about an efficiency gain of ± 0.1 mph or spending hours over obsessing over it.

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@rstevens15, I respect you’re kayak experience and evaluations over most. You made the point of @Buffalo_Alice: Too many notes, even for your ear. Its about comprehension. There is far more information than most members are willing to sift through. Your take away is the the differences are in the interest of a .1 mph gain. You’ve glossed over the reality that I almost gave up kayaking due a permamently damaged rotator cuff and advanced arthrtis in the left joint - it no longer work. Low angle is my only option. My obsessive compulsive desire for .1 mph speed increase is a bit silly. Not sure why I thought it was significant.

Perhaps the disinterest is because a guy with a busted flipper is approaching the cruising speed of health adults, while I feel it’s significant because I’m able paddle at all and do it pain-free. It’s the reaction Id get on a running forum by saying, “I can walk.” Yea uh!

Dude my detached bicep is almost healed and I can almost pull again on the right.

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That’s good. I thought that might have been your back. You and Steve have more broken parts, breaks, bullet holes than anyone I know. I’m looking for my paddle but stock is an issue. Reading your email from Sunday, you convinced me I can handle a different paddle length.

Oh to be sure the back is screwed up too.

And the Brachial Plexus Paulsey doesn’t help either. That sees to it that my left side is 25% weaker than my right. so when the Right is impacted performance is also impacted.

All my life I’ve had to work twice as hard as everyone else for physical stuff to be half as good.

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I guess your glass eye and wooden leg isn’t an asset either.

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Getting old sucks doesn’t it.

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Only if you can’t figure out how to compensate. I missed the opportunity of my prime and knew I was making big strides, but life duties called. Then I though it was over. The forum restored MY vigor. Last year I thought I peaked the year before. We spent the winter comparing notes and did one trip. The next solo trip I jumped .5 mph avg when I should have dropped by at least .3 mph. Hardly a .1 mph advantage. The irony is we use completely different techniques. I can’t beat you but we can be in competitive range.

This may sound like hyperbole. It’s one thing to duagree, it’s another level to trash what you don’t undestand. I stand on my stats and encourage anyone to disprove anything I suggest. What I accomplished in my early years was through power. Now I accomplish it through efficiency- less effort.

No, worse not to get old is my bet. Gone is forever. :laughing:

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We all have a finite time here. What makes each of us special is the positive influence we have on others. The question is whether you want to share what you’ve learned or guard it to your grave. It’s a personal choice whether someone wants to be inquisitive or innovative. It’s also a revealing trait when someone interrupt the free exchange of information.

How do you want to be remembered. I think you’ll be remembered fondly, at least by me. That is immortality.

Yeah then one day we’re all gone and nobody remembers anyone. :joy:

But you leave your legacy. Nothing you amass or learn is worth a spot of paint. All that matters is what we did for others.

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Right, I learned the hard way that you can’t teach old dogs new tricks (at least one person appreciated the information.

My comments are for paddlers looking for “altervatives,” not readers who already know everything. I get a lot of hate mail, but not much substance to contradict what I’ve offered. Maybe I’ll include an executive summary for intellectuals:

Get the lightest paddle you can afford, pick the square inch blade blade area and length that feels pretty good. If you can find a really good paddle cheap, even though the fit isn’t comfortable, use it anyway because fit doesnt matter if you saved $390. High angle/low angle paddles are just offered to sell more paddles and it doesn’t matter because you can use them interchangeably. Did I miss anything? (60 words or less for you speed reader).

Good luck with a Kallista doing high angle. You can do it but it won’t be as efficient.

My opinion is a high angle paddle a bit more easier to use low angle than if you reversed them.

Fit doesn’t matter :scream::flushed:

Just repeating what I read