How to Compare the Efficiency of Different Paddles

Speedometers are allowed to be +/- 5%. Most manufacturers err on the +5%. This may sound like an advantage since your real speed is lower than you think. But the odometer also will be +5%. this is great for manufacturers and shops, because your calculated mileage (if you manually track) will look 5% better, your lease miles will run out 5% faster, you do maintenance 5% more often, and you are more likely to replace your car because your car seems to be 5% more worn.

I have one of the very few cars with kind of accurate speedometer (within 1 mph of GPS, and those radar devices that tell you your speed). but most cars will show about 5% higher speed than actual (same GPS used)

I agree, at relatively high and constant speeds, like a car, and relatively long distances with the same speed, the 15ft inaccuracy will most likely cancel out. But a human-powered boat will change speed constantly and at low speeds the % error will be greater. Unlike a car, a kayak also zig-zags and accelerates and decelerates with each stroke.

I think the whole idea isn’t feasible otuside a lab. But it gave me the idea to use my cheap bicycle GPS computer to monitor my approximate speed over ground. With wind, waves, and currents it is hard to tell if I’m actually fast over ground, or just fast compared to waves.

First, regarding GPS accuracy, if you take enough measurements with the same device the errors will average out and conclusions can be made regarding relative speeds. Peak speeds cannot be accurately measured, because a fluctuation in the direction of a 15 foot error with 0.5 second sampling time could lead to a + or - 30FPS error in momentry speed. +/-15 feet on multiple 1760 foot repeats is not a large enough error to make comparison of average speed impractical.
Second, regarding paddle efficiency, this can only be assessed in a specific context, as in “how efficient is this paddle for this paddler moving this boat under these conditions at this speed with this degree of fatigue?”. For example, I have a Werner Skagit and a Greenland paddle. For 1 mile all out efforts the werner is more efficient, it allows me to achieve a higher speed with my maximum sustainable effort. But, at the end of a mile repeat with that paddle i feel spent, with the Greenland paddle I feel like I could keep going. So for some longer distance the Greenland paddle is probably more efficient. For touring speeds, your idea of using a heart rate monitor and comparing heart rate and speed over multiple repeats is probably as close as you can get to an objective answer, but may not be a useful answer. For me, longer paddles are not limited by energy expenditure or aerobic exhaustion, but by repetitive motion fatigue of the small muscles in the shoulder girdle. Consequently, a paddle which gave me a 5% decrease in speed at a sustainable heart rate might allow me to paddle more “efficiently” by conserving my most limited paddling resource: rotator cuff function. In the end, you should just enjoy the light pleasant feel of your paddle as you paddle someplace you like.

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PaddleDog52, I’ve done two max speed tests recently. The most recent one was a Kalliste vs Little Dipper. This thread recounted the first test from 23 June this year on Lake Redman near York, PA. It was between the Kalliste (99 sq in) and the Camano (100 sq in). The Camano peaked between 5.4 mph and 5.5 mph and I was able to hit 5.7 mph with the Kalliste. I rounded the difference off to about .2 mph. I alternated between each paddle with a recovery time of about 5 minutes.

PaddleDog52, we talked about paddles in another recent thread, where you mentioned your preference for the Ikelos, Corryvrekan and Shuna. I said I wanted to test the Kalliste against the Little Dipper because it had a 15 sq inches smaller blade. I compared those blades on Saturday with the same type of test. I believe I told you the range on that test, but can’t find the tread.

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Forget about inches on paddles CM2.

How accurate are speedometers? Dan Edmunds, an automotive engineer and the director of vehicle testing at Edmunds.com, says that speedometers cannot have an error of more than 5 percent (typically expressed as plus/minus 2.5 percent relative to the actual speed) according to federal law.May 11, 2012

Regarding GPS accuracy the US military system did indeed degrade the accuracy of the US system but that was discontinued by law in 1990. It is currently accurate to within 2.5 feet 95% of the time. Modern devices work with multiple systems including cell towers. Wiki claims the resulting accuracy is 2 meters for modern GPS.

When I look at the elevation data from my 5 year old cell, I can see short dips and rises of 5 feet or so on what is essentially flat waveless water. I assume the same accuracy applies to XY location and thus speed - expect to see short bursts and dips. This particular phone gets data from towers, the US satellites, GLONASS (Russian), BeiDou (Chinese), and Galileo (European).

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I see elevation changes up and down 150 plus feet. Funny I don’t feel a thing. :laughing:

I’m curious if those standalone GPS (like cycle computers) also have a cell phone antenna to use those for added accuracy. A smartphone, yes. But it is possible a standalone GPS that isn’t designed to be a phone doesn’t have the required hardware to tri-angulate cell towers. So they would only rely on the satellites.

Assuming most waters are free of trees and mountains, the devices should get close to their rated accuracy on a kayak.

You mentioned about inches and cm in another post. When I talk paddles, I have no clue about the length in inches, but for blades I always used sq inches. Your explanation of paddle performance had me looking at blade length and width. As I Google paddles, the tech specs started driving me crazy. Some inches, some cm’s, some both, some nothing, weight in ounces, lbs and oz’s, then grams.

I liked the idea of using cm, so I needed a calculator for conversion. I started discussions about paddles with a tablet to google product, then I’d be on the forum and need to do a conversion, so I’d back out and lose the thread and forget which thread I was on. To help a reader understand the relationship without converting, I started including both. I finally listed the blades with specs, after I looked at the my post on this thread and saw an error in the Camano sq cm - makes me wanna weep.

Interesting to know the error rate of a speedometer. When I’d find a road with mile markers, I set the stopwatch function on my watch and time the distance using cruise control. I calibrate my bike speedometer based on 50 psi in the front tire, because a few lbs either direction will change the speed over the marked trail that I use.

Now on a serious note, I think I’ll be able to solve this problem if I can measure moonbeams, because the moon is a constant distance from the earth . . . WHAT? It’s an elliptical orbit . . . So now I need a calculator.

So how do we measure the efficiency of a paddle? No clue Amigo! But I was out with my granddaughter on a lake. She had the Camano so I wondered which blade was better, Camano/Kalliste. So I said, Eh, the Kalliste is faster because I paid more money for it and its black. Black paddles are . 031 mph faster than red paddles . . . Does anyone want to know what happened?

Well “I” learned a lot from this thread GoEasily, so thanks for the OP, and to everybody for the tech info.

And the USPS lost my latest new paddle purchase. :sob:

Agggghhhh! Life can suck at times, paddle dog 52. By the way, I have a course that I paddle to check physical progress through the season. It has two legs that are 2 mile of near equal length, with a 1/2 mile segment mid-point. The long legs have the same tidal flow, but the 1/2 mile part can be considered slack or the tide is from the side.

After discussing GPS accuracy. I Googled the Garmin Colorado and GeoTrack that I installed on my Android phone. The GeoTrack web page explained GPS tracking. Satellite updates of 1k means the tracking information is updated every second and 10k would be 10 seconds. The higher the update rate, the more refined the speed readout, which results in higher the battery drain. The way to improve on location accuracy is to increase the number of satellites reporting. Like triangulation on a map. Apparently, some devices can use trajectory to predict and plot location. The prediction has a lower error rate, if the track is straight compared to one with many turns.

I recorded the trip on both devices. Results were interesting, with each having assets and limitations. The Garmin GPS update rate of 1k changes the speed every ssecond. It also samples high and low speeds more accurately, but it only displays real-time speed and records time; distance; moving and stopped times; overall, moving and max speed. Dash board can be arranged to hold between four and eight of about 20 optional fields.

The website for GeoTrack describes the app as a device to track other devices, phones/computers, vehicles, packages, to monitor movement or to recover from loss/theft. The update rate is 10k/10 seconds. I’m using because I like the way it documents the entire trip on a graph. The drawback is that the sample rate of 10 seconds clips the highs and lows. For that trip, no speeds over 5 mph or under 3.5 mph were reported, yet the trip speed and distance traveled were identical. I keep the phone in a Pelican waterproof case and the screen turns off after 30 seconds, so I can’t use it for real time. My last phone shut off after 2 minutes of non use and it had serious screen burn in. Still on the hunt for a better phone app.

Forgot to include the lanyard shots. I can send another view of the knot. It’s also available in knot books as a constrictor knot.

“Jyak”…a garmon 78c gives a similar reading. Layout is different, but same info.

Dang! Can look over now, but looks like the screen is controlled by cursors rather tha touch screen. I liked the touch screen, but it led to problems from fat fingerings. It looks good and the price is right. I love mine. Just went out again today on my same test route. Great day. Thanks for the info.

Regardless of speed or accuracy there of, being on the water is the point for me.

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Somewhere in another post I saw that elevation is based on the lake bottom, not the surface. I have a Garmin Edge 500 that confused me with elevation for many years, and then it suddenly made sense. Here is my elevation graph from today. I paddled from the boat ramp upstream, then to the dam, and back upstream, then to the boat ramp. The deepest part of the lake is by the dam, about halfway. Also included the speed, in case it is relavent for the paddle test. This is with the Epic large wing set at 238cm, 45 degree feather. GPS graph

I was never in 150 feet of water like my elevation says on my apps.

That’s crazy, but it’s a nice feature. Depth finder.

Just as a side note:
Here are 2 GL style paddles I made recently. The darker one is poplar wood and the other is ponderosa pine. The poplar one is the paddle I used to tow my friend in and also the one I used on the 45 mile trip.
The lighter one I made from my friend Steve M. (yeah the same guy I towed. He was impressed with how well I did bringing him back , and wanted to try one himself)
GL Paddles by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

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