How waterproof is eVent?

-- Last Updated: Aug-05-09 10:58 AM EST --

Folks asked to report the waterproofness of eVent. This is NOT meant to revisit other factors : > )

The hydrostatic head number tells us how water proof the fabric is. 10,000 mm = 1,000 cm = 14.2 PSI. 11.4 PSI is all that is required to sit in water without forcing moisture through. Kneeling in water is a tougher requirement in that a 165 lb man would exert 16.0 PSI.

eVENT’s (Nylon Fabric @ 3.1 oz/yd2, 105 g/m2) hydrostatic head is 42.6 PSI.

In addition here is the spec for its breathability as well.

The breathability, (MVTR) using the JIS L1099 test, tells us how well internal moisture vapor will be passed through the fabric. eVENT = 27,826.

eVENT’s membrane structure is important in two ways. First, molecules in their gaseous state (including perspiration vapor) can pass through the pore channels between the membrane’s fibers, a process that is capable of moving significantly higher fluxes of moisture than what is possible for by a solid layer of PU (as in Gore-Tex). Second, and more important, eVENT passes moisture equally well at both low and high humidity levels, evidenced by the independence of eVENT’s moisture transmission rate on the humidity level (see Figure 1). At a 70% mean humidity level, eVENT transports moisture about 30% faster than XCR and about 70% faster than standard Gore-Tex and the best PU membranes. But at a 30% mean humidity level, eVENT transports moisture about 200% faster than XCR and about 250% faster than standard Gore-Tex and the best PU membranes.


Is eVENT as durable as GoreTex ?

In order to answer this question, you have to understand that "eVENT" and "Gore-tex" are membrane technologies, not fabric technologies. Consequently, either may be laminated to different face fabrics. Those face fabrics are most commonly, taslan or ripstop nylons, and vary widely in terms of weight. So, the durability of the overall fabric depends far more on the face fabric to which the membrane is laminated than on the technology itself. When used in gear and apparel where the inside of the fabric is exposed (e.g., raingear, tents, bivy sacks), eVENT fabrics have a tricot-faced inner lining (a typical "3-layer construction" that protects the membrane. Generally, it is assumed that tricot linings not only do a better job of dispersing moisture and promoting moisture vapor flux through the membrane, but they also tend to be more durable than 2 and 2.5 layer constructions such as Gore-tex Paclite.


sleeping bag

– Last Updated: Aug-05-09 3:15 PM EST –

I sure hope that it's very waterproof! While breathability is not a concern for this, I am using numerous eVent dry bags for my sleeping bag, clothes, and food on an upcoming kayak camping trip! They are all compression bags as well, which really help scale down things for the hatches!

same here
and so far, so good.

Durability of the fabric is one thing…

– Last Updated: Aug-05-09 9:00 PM EST –

...but what I want to know is how long the waterproofness lasts under normal use. It's not the same thing. Gore-Tex has a stellar reputation in that regard, but I've seen nothing on eVent yet. Granted, it will take time to get real-world results, but I can wait.

What I don't understand is why you're so invested in this stuff and why you keep pushing it. I know you're happy with it, but you're starting to sound like our buddy Pammy.

I realize you could point out that I'm consistently defending Gore-Tex, but I'm simply using the product that is the defacto industry standard and the one you keep comparing eVent to.

I’ve got a Showers Pass event jacket
I have no idea how well it works for a dry suit. My Goretex dry suit lasted two seasons before delaminating,I used it about a total of eight times. Their warranty is fantastic.

The Showers Pass cycling rain jacket has better heat/moisture transmission than any goretex jacket I’ve had by maybe that’s a generation thing, the last goretex Jacket I had was five years ago. I’ve used the Event jacket about 100times and washed it once. Still works well.

Enough with insults

– Last Updated: Aug-06-09 12:18 AM EST –

Stop the insults Bryan. I don't engage in that with you. I have been complementary to you always. I have only stated factual data and let others reach their own conclusions. It is not necessary nor helpful to personalize this and attribute motivations to me like pushing things or sounding like others you evidently do not like either.

YOU ASKED EARLIER for this data. I simply came across it today and posted it.

enough already. I have a right like anyone to present possible improvements here. I am waiting along with others to see if it actually is as durable, but then you know that since I already said it.

defacto means Exercising power or serving a function without being legally or officially established: a de facto government; a de facto nuclear storage facility.

Is that what you meant? OK, so Gore-tex has been able to make a decent product after their original product failed and through legal american capitalism market it and exclude eVent by aggressive and exclusive sales contracts. It is factual that they obfuscated the marked loss of breathability of their product when they had to add the PU membrane to prevent contamination and the fact that is no longer was vapor transmittable, something they even got you to believe despite your considerable acumen and knowledge.

I like to see an open exchange of ideas unfettered by company interests, that is my ONLY motivation. If eVent turns out to be nothing better on not as good, fine by me. However, it does serve a purpose to share information factually and let us decide for ourselves what is best for us, you included, imo.

Regarding durabilty, the defacto Gore-tex is itself highly NOT durable
I quote the best research compiled on this, source the same as I stated earlier

One final issue: PU-PTFE Gore-Tex membrane was delicate, resulting from an ultrathin PU layer, and had to be protected. Wear abuse causes pinholes and cracks to develop in the membrane and create leakage channels. Protection for the Gore-Tex membrane was accomplished by either adding a free hanging nylon liner on the inside of the garment or (more commonly used nowadays), by laminating a protective layer of polyester tricot to the inner surface of the garment. The latter type of construction is used in what is commonly known as “3-layer” fabric. Typically (unless laminated to an extremely light face fabric), three-layer fabrics are bulky, heavy and compress poorly.

eVent is less delicate than the PU ptfe composite membrane of Gore-tex. However, what I have seen factually is that the differences in the membranes are less important than the fabric technolog utilized.

As stated earlier no one knows yet long term whether the science of how eVent prevents contamination will hold up in real world as a researched study. I only know of repeated wear testing showing good results but I am a real world science user so await this result.

tideplay, you have to remember that
by providing alleged evidence some folks might be ticked off and assume that you are attacking them personally.

Their rationale is that since they have made the purchase of an item(s) you are questioning their decisions.

I see such behavior all the time and no matter how much evidence one might present they will always try to defend publicly their choices.

What you might not know is that in the privacy of their own home they might however look very much into the findings and possibly reassess their beliefs.

Admitting that is however taboo.

Not saying that this is the exact case here, but that’s just human nature.

Thank you for researching and prompting us to not assume that Gore-tex is the undisputed king of waterproof breathable fabrics.

yes I get that

– Last Updated: Aug-06-09 3:21 AM EST –

Thank you.

Being a human myself I know this. That said, it is really not OK to stifle information sharing by becoming personal. Whether this is his intent or not, it is the effect on people and I will always speak up when this happens. Ignoring it is to reinforce its effect on people.

Drysuits are SURVIVAL gear, at worst life and death protection. It does matter if in storm conditions of 100 per cent humidity that a drysuit is capable of preventing completely wetting out our clothing and saturating our insulation. This may cause hypothermia and severe injury and or death.

If a new technology is BOTH durable AND more effective in ALL conditions and thus delays and or prevents wetting out of our insulation it should be considered as a superior and worthy choice. Each person makes their own priorities. But it is essential for us to have access to objective factual and researched information not manufacturer hype and worse.

What insults?

– Last Updated: Aug-06-09 8:41 AM EST –

I guess I forgot to put a smiley icon after my Pammy comment to indicate I was joking. Sheesh! Don't get all sensitive on me, OK? I wasn't attacking you, just pointing out that you're sounding a bit evangelical.

I appreciate the data you provided. That's one more objective data point. Thanks.

As for Gore-Tex, this is all starting to sound way too much like a conspiracy theory. Gore is and has been the market leader for decades, hence they have a lot of pull in the market. However, there is a big difference between using your leverage and doing something blatantly anti-competitive. Your accusations don't lend any credence to your pro-eVent arguments.

Your assertion about Gore-Tex not being durable is pure nonsense. I have Gore-Tex garments that have seen more than a decade of regular use that are still going strong. In the one case where I had a 9-year-old garment fail, it was replaced without question. That's the norm for Gore products.

Gore-Tex is the standard to which other fabrics compare themselves, which is what I meant by "defacto".

I'm more than willing to let eVent prove itself. As I said before, if it performs better than Gore-Tex and lasts at least as long, I'll switch to it as I replace my outdoor clothing, no question. The only loyalty I have to Gore products is based on their quality, performance and service. If a "better mousetrap" comes along, I'm all for it. However, I've seen so many "miracle fabrics" come and go that I'm skeptical of anything that doesn't have a track record.

Patagonia’s take

Nice try, but off the mark
As I’ve said before, I have no allegiance to Gore products other than being a satisfied customer. Gore-Tex was the best performing W/B fabric available at the times I purchased my various garments, so that’s what I bought. I am also highly skeptical of newcomers to the market that make claims of superiority, as numerous ones have come and gone in the past 30 years.

I also don’t like seeing a company that makes high-quality products and provides extraordinary service being unfairly (IMO) maligned.

When you get right down to it, I hope eVent IS a breakthrough, as it would be great to have superior breathability without having to compromise waterproofness or durability, which has been the trade-off to date. I’ll be looking for a new dry suit in the next year or so and if eVent is the new performance standard, that’s what I’ll buy.

Have they published any results?
I didn’t see a link to any.

you cannot silence me

– Last Updated: Aug-06-09 9:52 AM EST –

Stating facts is not maligning a company that is an insult and defamatory. I have not asserted Gore-tex is not durable. Actually neither product membrane is durable, what is durable is the fabric systems used. Misinterpreting what I have said or quoted, personalizing this, and attributing negative motivations to me is a way to devalue what facts are presented so that other readers do not see worth in what is shown.

Disagree energetically anytime I welcome it. But do it by accurately stating facts, andstop acting innocent when someone holds you accountable for stepping over the line. I have made errors like you in my life, but admit it when I do. Apologize or simply knock it off and move on.

If not, OK, but you will not stop me from presenting things in a factual way in the future. Period.

How did we come to the point that comparing someone to Pammy is the worst insult on P-Net? LOL!

Like Brian I’m looking forward to Event, but I under stand his skepticism. How long have we been listening to “Just as light and as warm as down” and IMO we still aren’t their yet.

Me Neither
It was there first thing this morning. Now it is not. I found it on their site and it was an interesting history of breathable fabrics starting with company’s like Early Winters and Trailwise from the very late 70’s foward.

It also said why Patagonia doesn’t believe in or use the numbers that you see associated with fabric breathability. The reason they gave is they sent examples of their fabric to six renown testing facilities all over the world and got six completely different sets of breathability numbers even though all six pieces of fabric came from the same bolt. Then six months later they resubmitted each piece of fabric to the same testing facilities making sure that each facility received the same piece that they had before to be retested and each testing facility supposedly came up with all new numbers on each piece even though it was the identical piece that they had tested earlier.

Because of that , Patagonia decided to test their products the old fashion way. Give it to real outdoors people, have them use it in different environments and weather conditions then report back. They also built a special washer machine to run their products through for 24 straight hours and see what that did. Not saying that theirs is a better product, but if their experience with testing labs is accurate then that pokes some holes in all companies specs hype.

i am skeptical but not personal
I am a skeptical, a debunker, and definitely a questioner of authority. That is not the problem here.

If a person has to respond to things by defaming the messenger “you are maligning this company” it is wrong and stifles us simply sharing factual stuff.

Being skeptical is great! Stifling a free flow of information is not.

Link now seems to be working

What are you all wound up about?
Nobody is trying to “silence” you, so lighten up already.

You said in your post above “Regarding durabilty, the defacto Gore-tex is itself highly NOT durable”. That seems pretty straightforward to me and it’s not true. Those are your words, not mine. If that is supposed to be some nuanced comment about membranes, it fell short of the mark. If you want people to understand what you mean, you have to say what you mean.

has anybody used eVent drysuit?
Has anybody here yet used an eVent drysuit for a while and tested whether it still waterproof in rescue practice after a couple of dozen uses? I seem to remember that in a previous thread that someone used an eVent drytop for a while and it started leaking - although leaking could always be seams instead of material.

I hope if someone buys one that they could report back to this board how it works in immersion after a couple of dozen uses.

AFAIK, there aren’t any…
…eVent dry suits on the market yet. It doesn’t seem to have been widely adopted by garment manufacturers, though that doesn’t necessarily mean anything other than that it takes time for new fabrics to work their way into the market. Since most paddling clothing is made offshore, there’s probably a 12 month production lead time, plus whatever time a manufacturer spends testing the fabric before adopting it. That could easily result in a delay of 2 years or more from the time a fabric is introduced until it sees wide usage.