I remember sitting at the kitchen table of my sister in law. She was having a party, and they were discussing food. She wanted me to bring home my catch for all to enjoy next time I went fishing. A couple others expressed interest in going fishing with me because it sounded like fun. They all stared at me with incredulous, blank faces when I told them they would have to buy an annual license to fish or they could get in trouble with the law. They found it difficult to understand how anyone would need a license just to fish.
They were all Filipino (Catholic… Bible thumping?) immigrants.
My wife has been paddling a bangka by herself for close to 30 years. She has been paddling a glass Mystic for the last couple years. I get that blank look when I tell her she may need certification to paddle her kayak in the future.
I shall object to manadatory certification by a private organization with possible financial motives the old fashioned American way. Since I live in one of the largest Filipino communities on the east coast, it shouldn’t be too much trouble to get a thousand signatures or so denouncing this proposal. These are your Walmart shoppers.
That’s what I was trying say… Is that in our area of the world nobody seems to care if you use a GP for the assessments. In your area of the states NE, I thought this was another HUGE bastion of greenland skill reservoir, I am surprised there aren’t more people aware/open to this who are BCU instructors.
In our area, mainly due to the vast numbers of inuit/traditional paddlers, I think people may have given up fighting against it. This may also have something to do with D Van Doren, as loathe as his name may be to some of you. He worked with the BCU to develop a Greenland Nordkapp trust curriculum. And alot of BCU folks here in the Midwest know for certain that the twig paddle is not a limitation or inferior based mainly on what a terrific paddler Doug is. And of course people like Maligiaq Padilla, Greg Stamer, and the QajaqUSA group, but Doug had alot to do with the good reputation of Greenland Paddling in our area before qajaq usa was a club.
George Bush has a higher IQ than John Kerry! Where did you hear that? Is this your opinion or was this some kind of USA today factoid or what? Because I find that hard to believe. It may be true who knows. Kerry is certainly the more polished and articulate public speaker. But that doesn’t make my suspicion about Bush’s IQ true. It would be fascinating if it were true. Is George W playing dumb?
Well I didn’t really want to make a political forum out of this post, I was really just trying to get a rise out of the NH folks.
You’re a lawyer… It seems to me that unless they are planning on providing free instruction, this has the makings of once again creating hardship for people of lower economic status to enjoy leisurely recreational activities. I think people tend to forget this since this sport is a predominately white, economically affluent sport. Do you think the ACLU would be interested? I’ve already written the USCG.
I've never heard of anyone being denied the chance to assess with a GP, but from what I've seen, they require you to use the same paddle form as for a Euro.
As for the Bush/Kerry thing, I don't recall where I saw it, but apparently someone dug up IQ test scores on them from somewhere. It just goes to show that eloquence doesn't equal intelligence. I've known some incredibly intelligent people who had a really hard time speaking intelligibly.
You, among others Would you allow someone with a GP to slide the paddle for sweeps stokes, braces and rolls? Would you allow a sculling draw with an angled paddle and the top hand palm out? Would you allow a Greenland sculling brace where the paddler is laying on the water and the elbows are not held close to the body? As you know, these are normal techniques with a GP, but are not textbook Euro technique as taught by either the ACA or BCU.
If so, I stand corrected. Is the BCU is less dogmatic than my perception or is it just that you’re now an avid Greenland paddler, too?
What are you talking about? I’m not an L3 coach and so cannot assess at the 3* level. The only time you’ve seen me teaching strokes was during '00 & '01. I took my first instructors training courses in the fall of '00. I gained instructor certification from the ACA (Open Water) in Spring '01 and from the BCU (L2) in the Fall '01. You haven’t seen me teach since then, so with all due respect you have no idea who or what I am as an instructor today.
Your argument seems to come down to the BCU is dogmatic because you feel that I was/am dogmatic. I find it interesting that you should characterize the whole of the BCU based on your experience with the behavior of one of it’s “first year” members from several years ago. I don’t speak for the BCU, not now and certainly not then.
I’ll certainly admit that I (personally) was dogmatic during the time when I was just starting to learn how to paddle and how to teach. Is this what you are looking for? How do you make the logic leap from my being dogmatic to the BCU being dogmatic? My paddling and my teaching has both progressed since '01 but if you want to believe that I was, am and always will be dogmatic then you have that right I guess. You perform a disservice to yourself and to the paddling public in general when you broadcast an opinion such as you have about the value of the BCU (and of me for that matter) based on such minimal data.
I started paddling with Greenland equipment in '98. I may even have GP’s older than your paddling career. I could be wrong, and of course the length of time someone has been paddling is certainly not the point. But please don’t think that because you’ve recently seen me with GP or wearing a tuilik that I have some how been newly-converted. I have been an avid student of paddling (in all it’s disciplines) for some time. I have and will continue to explore all available sources of information relative to paddling regardless of the current fashion, public opinion or the approval of any group.
It’s more than just a bit ironic that you who have so completely dismissed the BCU should accuse me of being dogmatic and close-minded.
cheers,
Jed
PS when you edit your posts mid-discussion it clouds things for those trying to follow the thread.
Odd question really, What relevance is cultural/ethnic hertiage to paddling? Destined for B&B board if not careful. I wouldn’t know with most other than through assumptions based on names (when I know them).
Fair question Simply put there is a socio economic division among races within the US, and if mandatory certification at the individual’s expense takes place then it will be the minorities that lose out. I am on a personal quest to have the minority voice heard, as it affects my family and friends, and am trying to see what areas of the country can be unified in support of my endeavor.
You probably wouldn’t understand as I doubt you have ever been ever called a “fish head” by other boaters. And it isn’t because we enjoy fishing.
Well, … there be po’ white folks too. Been one more years than not so far.
This country needs to get over race and see everyone as citizens (assuming they are). Any aid should be economically based - not race based.
No government form should have a check box for race (or even gender unless it has to do with medical/family services). Irrelevant, along with religion, etc.
Subdividing the citizenry reduces our collective power. Why we still allow it only proves how effective a manipulative tool it is.
well I have been reading this thread, and find it interesting, what I want to know is JUST how much does certification cost? I have talked to others and they have told me, but I want to know what others have paid. Now do a cost benefit analysis…… I also think this is what Endo was getting at .
Pretty much… It isn’t because of ethnicity, but rather earning power and expendable income. However, in reality these two tend to go hand in hand at this present time within the US. But then again, wasn’t it Jesus that said the poor would always be with you?
My wife and I live in an area that is predominately Black, Indian, Spanish and Filipino. Many minorities I know fully realize that education is a great equalizer. It just takes a couple generations before this takes effect because it takes money, opportunity and sacrifice to put your kids through college. Meanwhile you have a poor Spanish family spending their hard earned cash on a recreational kayak from a large retail store so their kids can have some fun paddling on the local estuary that their house or apartment overlooks. Good clean family fun. I’m sure we wouldn’t want these same kids hanging around the street corner getting in trouble. Not all will be content with just a soccer or basketball. Many of these kids eventually enlist in our armed services. White, educated, affluent people on the other hand tend to be the officers.
(By the way, the Spanish family I’m referring to is real and not hypothetical.)
However, if this family were told that even though they bought the kayak they would have to pay for mandatory certification also, then it might become too much of a hassle for them. It also baffles them that anyone would need to pay for and pass a test just to paddle a simple boat. Are pool toys next?
I’m sure the idea of mandatory certification is not racially motivated. However, the repercussions would affect minorities as a whole more harshly. There aren’t going to be any riots in the streets, just bad feelings and a loss of freedoms.
right… hopefully the planet Zardon 8 will see it ‘our’ way!
If not, then I guess they can create their own standard.
Reminds me of a certain Dairy Queen commercial.
paddling is paddling. the sea is the sea. a journey into the sea with certain skills/ experience as a knowledge base is “needed” for safe travel. We are developing a simple standard that people who travel to sea can follow, and lose the ‘ours is better than yours’ issue.
Slow down for a second, Jed. First off, I’m well aware of how your attitude and approach has changed over the years, for the better, I think we’d both agree. Secondly, I wasn’t accusing you of being overly dogmatic, at least not now. I realize that you’ve been dabbling with GPs for a long time and it’s quite possible that your Cricket storm paddle was the first GP I saw. I wasn’t aware of your assessor status and was going on what I’ve observed when you’re teaching. That was a bad assumption on my part. Sorry about that.
I’m basing my comments on discussions with several GP users who’ve progressed through BCU Star program, all of whom felt it necessary to switch back to a Euro paddle for it because many of the required stokes were not as effective with a GP when they were forced to perform them in the BCU-prescribed manner. Perhaps you can shed some light on the questions I asked, specifically if the BCU assessment standards are flexible enough to allow such variations in form. If they are, that’s great and I stand corrected. If not, that’s my point.
I really wish you wouldn’t take this as “BCU bashing” or being dismissive, as that’s not my intent. Their program is what it is and the important thing is to understand exactly what’s required and whether it’s applicable to one’s chosen paddling style. If you don’t feel qualified to answer or don’t feel it’s appropriate, then perhaps someone else here can.
