@magooch said:
I have to agree that staying in the boat is easier than any kind of re-entry in conditions that might flip you. Some sea kayaks would rather be upright and are happy to assist you in that endeavor. All they ask is that you lay back and up you go. The British style–upturned ends–seem to be particularly adept at this. It works for me.
Yes just float up here is me doing that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIF6x8-TjQs
@Sparky961 said:
This video cost me a paddle. I suspect you don’t have quite the same mass as I do, as I couldn’t make it work for me.
Did you put the paddle under the deck line on your near side instead of just gripping the deck line with your fingers? That has cost a lot of broken paddles.
.> @Allan Olesen said:
Did you put the paddle under the deck line on your near side instead of just gripping the deck line with your fingers? That has cost a lot of broken paddles.
The boat I was using has additional “rescue straps” affixed and I was using those. Never again.
Also, the paddle had some existing minor damage and that was the point of failure. It didn’t turn out too expensive or annoying in the long run. I learned that paddles do, indeed, break.
Dc9mm, your video brings up a good point. Even if people don’t have the inclination to practice full immersion rolls during an outing, it’s always pretty easy to practice your balance braces. I like doing that to cool off on hot days and also to stretch out my back during rest stops. It’s actually kind of a relaxing position on a calm day and helps reinforce your muscle memory for roll exits. Easier with a nice buoyant cedar GP, I think – I have never tried it with a Euro blade.
@Sparky961 said:
The boat I was using has additional “rescue straps” affixed and I was using those. Never again.
Your thumbs down is interesting as I’ve seen them advertised. Was it because of the broken paddle or because they were inefficient to use?
I’m adverse to drilling holes in my boat when there are other options.
@Rookie said:
@Sparky961 said:
The boat I was using has additional “rescue straps” affixed and I was using those. Never again.
Your thumbs down is interesting as I’ve seen them advertised. Was it because of the broken paddle or because they were inefficient to use?
I’m adverse to drilling holes in my boat when there are other options.
They were installed on the boat already when I purchased it. I don’t think I’d do it myself.
I think the incident was the result of a combination of factors, all of those having been discussed also having been factors.
Tried that paddle float heal-hook a couple times yesterday. It worked.
As far as I’ve ever been able to figure, putting the paddle under the deck line on the far end of the kayak serves to keep the paddle in place, but doesn’t do anything to prevent the kayak from tipping in the direction of the paddle float. Same with any paddle float re-entry. Same doing this heal-hook thing yesterday. I had to hold a pretty good hold between the deck line and paddle shaft. I’m guessing that would be a big factor in successful use of this method - whether or not a person has the ability to hold the deckline and paddle shaft together as they’re performing the heel-hook. I’m not sure I’m buying into not securing the near side of the kayak from tipping downward with anything but a person’s hand-hold? But maybe the collective experience on here says otherwise?
In the same way I see where a hand distributes the pressure over a larger area of the paddle shaft, doing something to prevent breaking at that point, so would the rescue straps that I have on a Legend. The webbing straps just behind the cockpit are independently adjustable from the deck lines, and offer a wider contact area against the shaft than a deck line. I’m not recognizing how they even could be inferior to just using the deck lines in a paddle float situation? You can still just secure the paddle under the far strap if that’s your preference.
I’ve seen taught to never secure the paddle blade portion of the paddle for any of these. Push the paddle blade through so that all pressure is on the shaft, and none on a blade, whether you’re putting it under on just one side, or on both sides. Not sure if any others teach this? I’ve broken one paddle, but it was due to the blade getting wedged as I was paddling forward, and the blade cracked in half. I’ve never broken one during rescues or re-entries…yet.
I am interested to hear people’s habits and experiences of securing under the near side deck lines of the kayak or not, again, knowing that securing under the far-side strap doesn’t stabilize the kayak from tipping down on the side you’re trying to climb up on. My practice has always been that securing under the near-side deck line is important to stabilize the kayak, and under the far-side deck line simply keeps the paddle there, but doesn’t stabilize the kayak. I still pull the paddle through so that the blade is past the opposite side of the kayak, but whether or not it’s under the far side deck line has never held great importance for me. If you push the far side of the kayak down, even with the paddle secured under the deck line, the paddle float will just sail through the air along with it. Preventing the kayak from tipping down on the near side is actually all you can do other than just holding the paddle in position on the back deck to help you do the work with your hand.
@CapeFear
I was introduced to the ACA paddle float self rescue in my L1 class. I was paddling a rec kayak with two sealed bulkheads (12’ x 26") to which I had added perimeter lines (thanks to the mentors here). I use a dual chambered paddle float.
I did what the instructor told me to do, which was to secure the paddle under the far line (after attaching the float and inflating it), then holding the paddle and near deck line. As I recall, the blade was under the bungee (something I don’t do with my carbon paddle). It was quite a struggle to keep the paddle perpendicular while getting my knee and leg over the paddle shaft to get in my boat. The width of the boat didn’t help. I never practiced that again until a couple months later when I got a 22" wide boat. And all my bruises had healed.
Yes, the kayak tips towards me, but never far enough over to get water in the cockpit. For me, the heel hook gets me back in faster than the ACA method I was taught. Less effort.
While I’d like to try your method of securing under the near deck line, my LV boat has no such line on the near side. That’s where the day hatch is. There’s a triangle bungee on the far side. That’s why those rescue straps got my attention.
My 14-foot kayak does have rigging on both sides, so will give it a try.
@CapeFear said:
I’m not sure I’m buying into not securing the near side of the kayak from tipping downward with anything but a person’s hand-hold?
I can only tell you that I know several people who have broken paddles by securing them under the near deck line for a heel hook self rescue.
You indirectly point out the reason yourself: If you are not careful with the positioning of your body weight, you will put a lot of pressure on the paddle, more than you can hold with your hands. If the paddle is under the near deck line, you will not know that you are positioning your body weight wrongly. If the paddle is held by your hand, you will feel the excess force, and you can make attempts to adjust your body position - and if those attempts don’t work out, you will probably let go with the hand, fail the rescue but keep your paddle intact.
Yea I tried that heel and hook method with a paddle float, worked OK on calm water but I couldn’t get the paddle to stay positioned in real world rough conditions. Plus the chance of breaking paddle. Heel and Hook is my preferred way to teach for Assisted rescues. Works great for heavier paddlers or people with not much upper body strength.
@Allan Olesen said:
You indirectly point out the reason yourself: If you are not careful with the positioning of your body weight, you will put a lot of pressure on the paddle, more than you can hold with your hands. If the paddle is under the near deck line, you will not know that you are positioning your body weight wrongly. If the paddle is held by your hand, you will feel the excess force, and you can make attempts to adjust your body position - and if those attempts don’t work out, you will probably let go with the hand, fail the rescue but keep your paddle intact.
You make some great points here. If I ever try this one again I think I’ll do it your way.
@CapeFear said:
Tried that paddle float heal-hook a couple times yesterday. It worked.
As far as I’ve ever been able to figure, putting the paddle under the deck line on the far end of the kayak serves to keep the paddle in place, but doesn’t do anything to prevent the kayak from tipping in the direction of the paddle float. Same with any paddle float re-entry. Same doing this heal-hook thing yesterday. I had to hold a pretty good hold between the deck line and paddle shaft. I’m guessing that would be a big factor in successful use of this method - whether or not a person has the ability to hold the deckline and paddle shaft together as they’re performing the heel-hook. I’m not sure I’m buying into not securing the near side of the kayak from tipping downward with anything but a person’s hand-hold? But maybe the collective experience on here says otherwise? "
You have to ensure that the paddle/boat are functioning as a single unit. The paddle float will only provide support if the boat and paddle are well attached. Any looseness will be found by the prevailing conditions and defeat the rescue. This means that as you enter (method does not matter) you either have to hold the paddle to the boat or find some method (straps/ties on boat) to keep the boat from simply rolling underneath the paddle blade. This is probably where most such rescues fail. One method of doing this (as the developers of the paddle float first proposed) is to face the front of the boat, paddle blade under front straps with the float attached. Slide the far leg partially (up to calf or so) in the cockpit and make sure your back is now supported on the paddle/float. Slide the near leg in. Slide the boat toward you as though putting on a pair of pants, keeping weight on the paddle. This may work better for some than others, but the key is to keep your back on the paddle as you slide legs in the cockpit. Works much better if you have a light frame (ie. not like me). Strength to weight ratio is your friend.
In the pictures in a previous post showing the paddler laying on side with the blade, this only works on certain hull designs. The old Arluks from the '80s were particularly good at laying on their side without support and never turned completely upside down. Upturned ends with a bit of volume are needed to make this work. This cannot be done with many hull designs, so a sculling brace can be used to keep the kayak at 90 degrees on the face of the water.
You asked about the Eddyline Equinox. The cockpit is very ample for reentry. With my Eddlyline Journey (same cockpit) I was unable to do a reentry without a paddle float, but a young, slim, fit person was able to do this type of reentry in my Journey without a float. I also found the limited buoyancy of the Eddyline hull hindered reentry—it tends to flip over easily. To overcome that you have to have the fitness to heave a good portion of your weight onto the center of the kayak. I would say that for a less fit person, the lack of buoyancy of an Eddyline creates a very tippy reentry. Although I practiced reentry many a time in calm water, practicing in rough water was an eye opener and I lost my illusion that I would be able to do it in whatever conditions were bad enough to toss me out of the kayak.
@Allan Olesen said:
I am 50 years, weighs 100 kg (around 220 pounds), mostly because of excess fat, and according to the VO2MAX calculation in my watch, my fitness is below average for my age group.I can do a cowboy reentry, and it is easy. But I do use my paddle as an outrigger while jumping up.
This. I’m 48 and 245 lbs. for the same reasons. And I have successfully done the cowboy scramble several times as practice without trouble. I agree on using a paddle float as an outrigger and two more important things:
If springing onto the rear deck is the problem, and the boat isn’t too heavily loaded in front, I’ve found it easier to pull the stern down and pull myself up from the very end of the boat. Finally, one benefit of the paddle float is that unlike in the initial video, most of us aren’t charmed such that flinging our paddles to the side results in them automatically popping onto the deck or under the boat so they don’t float away. The float forces you to secure the paddle and leaves both hands free to pull yourself along the deck. Perimeter lines make this MUCH easier. Just practice pulling your self far enough forward that your legs clear the secured paddle and float before you sit upright.
I’ve found both the paddle float outrigger self-rescue and cowboy re-entry to be very unreliable for me (and I’ve tried recently, being inspired by some of these posts and suggestions as to technique). I haven’t taken a self-rescue class for a long long time, so can’t say for sure if some supervised training might improve my success rate but it certainly seems in my case that these approaches are pretty finicky, even when performed in very benign conditions. I also don’t like the fact that getting out the float, securing it to the paddle and securing paddle to deck (which is not very secure with my GP) keeps me in the water for longer which comes with additional risks (getting chilled with concomitant deterioration of abilities, losing paddle, etc.). My re-entry and roll however is pretty quick and, so far, foolproof and I have become convinced that it is, for me, the rescue method of choice.
@Monkeyhead said:
My re-entry and roll however is pretty quick and, so far, foolproof and I have become convinced that it is, for me, the rescue method of choice.
You know what they say about things that are fool proof, eh? “Show me something foolproof, and I’ll show you a better fool”.
Reenter/roll is a great self-rescue but having only one trick up your sleeve lowers your odds when things inevitably go wrong in a way you can’t anticipate.
Training/practicing with an instructor could certainly help narrow down the issue. It’s likely technique, fitness, or both. Maybe you could say balance is a separate issue too.
@GrumpySquatch said:
@Allan Olesen said:
But I do use my paddle as an outrigger while jumping up.This. I’m 48 and 245 lbs. for the same reasons. And I have successfully done the cowboy scramble several times as practice without trouble. I agree on using a paddle float as an outrigger
I did not write that I use a paddle float. I don’t. I just use the paddle. The attraction of the cowboy rescue is that you can avoid spending time on handling a paddle float. The blade in the water will cause enough resistance to prevent the kayak from tilting for the 2-3 seconds it takes to pull oneself onto the deck.
@Monkeyhead said:
My re-entry and roll however is pretty quick and, so far, foolproof and I have become convinced that it is, for me, the rescue method of choice.
That is also my preferred rescue. But only because I have installed an electrical pump*. Even when I mount the sprayskirt under water before rolling up, I will get a huge amount of water into the cockpit. The paddle float rescue and the cowboy rescue will keep the cockpit more dry.
(*: Or rather the other way around: I installed an electrical pump because reentry and roll is my preferred rescue.)
Allan, funny you should say that as I was just laying here thinking about my plans for installing an electric pump. Even with web instructions however, it seems a bit daunting to me and I keep putting it off. But I’ll get it done. Do you use a reed switch? Nice touch re: mounting spray skirt underwater. I haven’t tried that but I’m not sure that I take on much additional water when rolling up. I’ll have to verify, or not, that next time I’m out.
Also, was interested in your use of a paddle (sans float) outrigger during cowboy scramble. Do you use a Euro or Greenland style paddle?
@Monkeyhead said:
I’ve found both the paddle float outrigger self-rescue and cowboy re-entry to be very unreliable for me (and I’ve tried recently, being inspired by some of these posts and suggestions as to technique). I haven’t taken a self-rescue class for a long long time, so can’t say for sure if some supervised training might improve my success rate but it certainly seems in my case that these approaches are pretty finicky, even when performed in very benign conditions. I also don’t like the fact that getting out the float, securing it to the paddle and securing paddle to deck (which is not very secure with my GP) keeps me in the water for longer which comes with additional risks (getting chilled with concomitant deterioration of abilities, losing paddle, etc.). My re-entry and roll however is pretty quick and, so far, foolproof and I have become convinced that it is, for me, the rescue method of choice.
Monkey a re-enter in roll is fool proof then why would you be out of your boat in the first place? Why didn’t you roll in the first place?, a re-enter and roll is harder to do than just a plain roll. To make a re-enter and roll fool proof ad that paddle float. You CANT fail with a paddle float attached.