@Monkeyhead said:
Allan, funny you should say that as I was just laying here thinking about my plans for installing an electric pump. Even with web instructions however, it seems a bit daunting to me and I keep putting it off. But I’ll get it done. Do you use a reed switch? Nice touch re: mounting spray skirt underwater. I haven’t tried that but I’m not sure that I take on much additional water when rolling up. I’ll have to verify, or not, that next time I’m out.
Also, was interested in your use of a paddle (sans float) outrigger during cowboy scramble. Do you use a Euro or Greenland style paddle?
I use this reed switch http://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=DRR-129%2067-73
Most other who have made a eletric bilge pump seem to use HEAVY type batteries. I use the lightest battery a LIPO at 9 ounces plus its small with 2.5 amps of power enough to empty a cockpit at least 15 to 20 times. I have installed pumps in many boats. Each one is a little different. It depend on were you can put the outlet for the pump. the battery I always use is this one http://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-compact-2450mah-4s-35c-lipo-pack.html it does require a special charger more info here. http://www.pbase.com/dc9mm/kayak_bilge_pump Even though the battery is 14.8 volts the Rule pump handles that voltage just fine.
@Monkeyhead said:
Allan, funny you should say that as I was just laying here thinking about my plans for installing an electric pump. Even with web instructions however, it seems a bit daunting to me and I keep putting it off. But I’ll get it done. Do you use a reed switch?
I have put an electric switch inside the little finger of a rubber glove and then sealed it with a lot of Tec7. The switch is dangling on the end of a cable on the floor of the kayak (because I never got around to mounting it anywhere) so it is quite often submerged in salt water. It has lasted now for a year.
The switch is not needed for starting and stopping the pump during a trip, only for cutting the power after a trip. The pump senses the water by spinning up shortly once every 20 seconds, and it can run in this mode for several day trips before the battery is empty.
Nice touch re: mounting spray skirt underwater. I haven’t tried that but I’m not sure that I take on much additional water when rolling up. I’ll have to verify, or not, that next time I’m out.
I take in an enormous amount of water. It takes me several minutes afterwards with a hand pump to empty it out.
Also, was interested in your use of a paddle (sans float) outrigger during cowboy scramble. Do you use a Euro or Greenland style paddle?
I use a Euro paddle. I have never seen anyone using a paddle float for a cowboy rescue. If you spend time attaching the paddle float, it makes more sense to me to do a normal paddle float self rescue (or a reentry and roll with paddle float).
dc9mm…because I’m practicing re-entry and rolls which obviously require that I get out of the boat. Also, I don’t necessarily agree that an R&R is more difficult than a roll, unless you ARE practicing, if for no other reason than because the need to roll arises suddenly, feels like an emergency, and doesn’t give you much of a chance to think about what you’re doing. Often, when finding one’s self upside down with your head below the surface of the water, less experienced paddlers first reaction may be to panic and wet exit (all good reasons to practice your roll until it is so well ingrained in your motor memory that it becomes almost automatic). While a re-entry and roll does involve the additional step of a re-entry, you at least have time to think about what you’re doing, set up correctly, etc.
re: paddle float R&R’s…doing a paddle float takes additional time (to deploy, attach, and blow up the float unless you’re using a foam one) which keeps you in the water longer which may come with added risks as alluded to earlier. Having said that, it IS something I plan to practice on my next outing, just in case. At least in calm conditions, I haven’t had any problems with an unassisted R&R. Perhaps it would be more useful in less benign conditions (although I can also imagine it being more difficult in such conditions). Another issue for me is that I have not yet found a good way to secure my paddle float to my greenland paddle. It doesn’t stay there as securely as on a Euro paddle (and I’ve tried a couple of different floats).
Monkey a re-enter in roll is fool proof then why would you be out of your boat in the first place? Why didn’t you roll in the first place?, a re-enter and roll is harder to do than just a plain roll. To make a re-enter and roll fool proof ad that paddle float. You CANT fail with a paddle float attached.
Do you need to use a fuse with that switch (I think the one I purchased is high voltage or something and may not have needed a fuse but my memory is a bit foggy on that point [it’s been sitting in a box under my bed for the last 6 months or so])?
@Monkeyhead said:
Allan, funny you should say that as I was just laying here thinking about my plans for installing an electric pump. Even with web instructions however, it seems a bit daunting to me and I keep putting it off. But I’ll get it done. Do you use a reed switch? Nice touch re: mounting spray skirt underwater. I haven’t tried that but I’m not sure that I take on much additional water when rolling up. I’ll have to verify, or not, that next time I’m out.
Also, was interested in your use of a paddle (sans float) outrigger during cowboy scramble. Do you use a Euro or Greenland style paddle?
I use this reed switch http://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=DRR-129%2067-73
Most other who have made a eletric bilge pump seem to use HEAVY type batteries. I use the lightest battery a LIPO at 9 ounces plus its small with 2.5 amps of power enough to empty a cockpit at least 15 to 20 times. I have installed pumps in many boats. Each one is a little different. It depend on were you can put the outlet for the pump. the battery I always use is this one http://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-compact-2450mah-4s-35c-lipo-pack.html it does require a special charger more info here. http://www.pbase.com/dc9mm/kayak_bilge_pump Even though the battery is 14.8 volts the Rule pump handles that voltage just fine.
I use a Euro paddle. I have never seen anyone using a paddle float for a cowboy rescue. If you spend time attaching the paddle float, it makes more sense to me to do a normal paddle float self rescue (or a reentry and roll with paddle float).
I have never seen anyone using a paddle at all for a cowboy scramble, but as my cowboy scramble has become very hit or miss for me in my new boat, I am definitely interested in giving it a try.
I, too, end up with a cockpit full of water after a re-enter and roll. I’ve tried putting on the spray skirt upside down, but it doesn’t help much, if any. It’s about the only reason I don’t always use this method to get back in, because it really is easier than climbing on top once you’ve got your roll down-pat.
An electric bilge pump would be a nice addition, especially in really crazy conditions where you can’t take your hands off the paddle to pump. It is not, however, a substitute for having a variety of ways to get back into your boat. Things with batteries, wires, and motors (especially in wet locations) are VERY prone to failing at the least convenient time. I wouldn’t be putting all my faith in it.
I have never seen anyone using a paddle at all for a cowboy scramble,
That surprises me. You need to place your paddle somewhere during the scramble. So why not place it where it will benefit you mostly?
I find this sequence quite natural:
I float in the water with the paddle in my left hand and holding the kayak with my right hand.
I grab a near deck line with my left hand while keeping the paddle in that hand.
I then grab a far deckline with my right hand.
Now the paddle is in the water beside me, and I only need to make sure that the blade is flat on the water.
Then I pull myself up. The blade will automatically assist in slowing down the rotation of the kayak hull.
The only other way I can think of would be grabbing a far deck line with both hands while still holding the paddle in one hand. Then I would of course not have any help from the paddle. But I have not felt a need for this hand position.
@Monkeyhead said:
Do you need to use a fuse with that switch (I think the one I purchased is high voltage or something and may not have needed a fuse but my memory is a bit foggy on that point [it’s been sitting in a box under my bed for the last 6 months or so])?
@Monkeyhead said:
Allan, funny you should say that as I was just laying here thinking about my plans for installing an electric pump. Even with web instructions however, it seems a bit daunting to me and I keep putting it off. But I’ll get it done. Do you use a reed switch? Nice touch re: mounting spray skirt underwater. I haven’t tried that but I’m not sure that I take on much additional water when rolling up. I’ll have to verify, or not, that next time I’m out.
Also, was interested in your use of a paddle (sans float) outrigger during cowboy scramble. Do you use a Euro or Greenland style paddle?
I use this reed switch http://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=DRR-129%2067-73
Most other who have made a eletric bilge pump seem to use HEAVY type batteries. I use the lightest battery a LIPO at 9 ounces plus its small with 2.5 amps of power enough to empty a cockpit at least 15 to 20 times. I have installed pumps in many boats. Each one is a little different. It depend on were you can put the outlet for the pump. the battery I always use is this one http://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-compact-2450mah-4s-35c-lipo-pack.html it does require a special charger more info here. http://www.pbase.com/dc9mm/kayak_bilge_pump Even though the battery is 14.8 volts the Rule pump handles that voltage just fine.
YES I use an inline fuse holder and 3 amp fuse I get from Napa auto parts. Its I think a micro size one. I have never had a fuse pop yet BUT you definitely want one. I put the fuse in the Pelican 1030 mini case along with the battery. Then that goes in either the day hatch or back hatch if boat has no day hatch. Its a clean setup. I have heard of others who paddle salt water that have used a rubber encased toggle switch and all have said they eventually failed. I got this form the UK forum and they use air switches to turn on pump. Air switch requires a large whole drilled into kayak and I didn’t like that. Enough to drill a large whole for pump outlet. Always makes me nervous drilling a large whole see here Oh when drilling a gelcoated kayak use drill in reverse plus that blue painters tape so not to chip gelcoat, got that info from power boat guys. http://www.pbase.com/dc9mm/image/166617163/large on that setup on Tiderace I used a capture plug. Plug/cork pops out when you turn the pump on. i did this only on this install since this exit is on side of boat and lower I put plug/cork to keep any water coming back in.
On the re-enter and roll I guess your right that a beginner roller might panic. for me its automatic. I was paddling out with two others in 6 foot wave I was on the far right I got flipped rolled up and never missed a beat, the two next to me didn’t even realize I rolled. Thats everyone’s goal. I can do a re-enter and roll and its my fastest way back into the boat. BUT its still more work that just a roll and the boat does NOT come up as easy either. The pump makes it that much nicer. One thing about the pump when the skirt is wet and your pumping out if will start to implode the skirt from the suction. I have to let some air in after a few seconds, not a big deal. Not sure if the pump has enough strength to actually pull the skirt off while sucking it in , maybe?
@dc9mm said:
Not sure if the pump has enough strength to actually pull the skirt off while sucking it in , maybe?
My pump can suck the skirt all the way to the bottom of the kayak. But the skirt stays in place on the cockpit edge.
I tried that during scoop rescue training. During this rescue you actually want as much water as possible to go into the cockpit so after the rescue I was really flooded.