I have been using primarily a GP for a couple years now but want to pick up a good EP to use for different reasons. (lets not get into those)
I am looking to see what folks prefer for a carbon EP regarding Werner Cyprus/Ikelos vs Lendal Kinetic/Kinetic S.
I have used both in the past, but can only remember that I liked the Werner foam filled blades but I wasn’t fond of the grip. I liked the Lendal Kinetic for the grip but it lacked the foam core.
What do you prefer - and for arguments sake, lets skip the other brands - as good as they might be as I have access to these two brands in the next day or two.
I prefer Werner
The ‘indexed’ grip (that bump thing) on the Lendal paddle shaft really hurts my wrists and hands. I also think the Lendals are a bit heavy, but I know people who prefer the weight.
Basically for me it comes down the discomfort from using a Lendal.
Because of interchangability of the 4 piece system.
The Lendal blades are not dihedral, on the power face, which some claim makes for a more efficient power stroke.The Werners have a bit of dihedral, which is supposed to prevent flutter at the expense of a tiny bit of efficiency. They’re both excellent, but feel different in the water. It would be best to try them out and see if one or the other suits your fancy, but keep in mind that The Werner blades, with their buoyancy, might be be more likely to feel great immediately, while the Lendals may take a short time to get used to.
i have been using this paddle almost daily for about 6 months, and find it to be a highly refined instrument. an extension of my body. like a painters brush. it’s a sophisticated design, that i don’t believe has equal. Lendals are great, but are crude in comparison to Werners, and i find it noticable personally. i have other nice paddles, including an excellent Epic, but the Cyprus is magnificent.
have both an ikelos
and several lendals.
day to day for instructing, surfing, paddling i use the ikelos. it weighs nothing and with that foam core just pops out of the water. having used lendals for a # of years, it took a little getting used to the shape of the werner shaft where it lacks a really prominent index (althouth if it bothered me that much, you can always put one on after the fact). i try to not take the werner anywhere near any rock garden-y stuff. also, the joint where the 2 pieces mate now has a little play and i may end up just epoxying both pieces together.
the lenadals are rock solid (or were...i have no experience with anything manufactured by j&j) the blades don't have the same "pop" for me as the foam core stuff but still a very nice feeling blade in the water. solid. breaking down into 4 pieces is super convenient for travel. also, if you were to crack for break one of the blades, you only replace the blade set and not the whole paddle. nice. that being said, i've bashed the blades off a fair # of rocks and there's been very little damage at all; they're very rugged (i think its n12's i use) and they've held up very well to assorted abuse.
if i had to get only 1 and had aspirations for travel and extensive rock play, i might go with the lendal for those reasons.
I use a Lendal Kinetic Touring S in carbon. The other day I traded paddles with someone from our group out in Lake Ontario. It was a Werner (also in carbon) but I don’t recall the model.
The thing that struck me most was the weight difference - the Werner was lighter. It was quite noticeable after reclaiming my paddle an hour later.
That said, the Lendal received several compliments from those that tried it.
Use Lendal Kinetic carbon, Kinetic carbon/nylon, Kinetic Fusion XTi carbon/nylon on carbon bent shaft.
There is noticeable difference when going over to Werners. Both the grip and the placement of grip feels and is different. Additionally, Lendal’s idea of bent shaft is different from Werner.
Werner is much lighter, Lendal has take apart flexibility that is next to none. Lendal’s key lock ferrule feels stronger than Werner’s pushbutton.
That said, both are excellent paddles. After paddling for a while, you get used to the small differences.
Coming from GP, you will definitely feel at home with Werner - it floats!
some are…there is a slight spine on
a kinetic blade…
lendal crank shaft
"Additionally, Lendal’s idea of bent shaft is different from Werner."
yup…a lendal crank shaft is designed so that the second you put the balde in the water and pull with JUST ONE FINGER the paddle will orient itself so that it is perfetcly perpendicualr to the water…that way you get the best catch of that blade…and the most power…
love Lendals…have 4…all the original-not johnson outdoor tho…
had a werner…did nto like it…sold it…
I don’t have a lot of experience with either yet to be honest. Everyone likes the four piece Lendal setup…but I was able to do an employee purchase on a Werner Cyprus from my store before I left, so that is what I went with. It has a ton of bouyancy, and it allowed me to pull off a butterfly roll the first time I had ever tried it…it just floated on the surface and I almost felt like it could just pull myself up using it. Coming from a greenland paddle I would think that this amount of flotation might be very appealing for a EP.
bad ass paddle,
love my crank shaft
super light, but strong
never used a Lendal
Cyprus vs Ikelos
so many Ikelos’s out there. i find it to be a huge blade, too big, where the C is just right.
If you are going to paddle distance near home then I’d say go with the Werner. The lightness makes a difference on long paddles. If you’re going to be doing alot of traveling with your paddle then a 4 pc. paddle may be better for you (assuming you like the way both paddles feel). I’ve only tried a Lendal once and liked the way it felt in the water but eventually ended up with 2 Werners. Coming from GP you might also consider a Kalliste. I use that most of the time and go to the Cyprus when I need to keep up with swift paddlers. I’m not totally convinced it helps but haven’t been willing to test it as some others here do.
Re comments above about Werners not being able to take abuse, I’ve really beat my Kalliste up, both in rock gardens and white water and have never had any kind of problem (well once I did but it was on the ocean and was a mfg problem and it was quickly replaced by Werner). They do all seem to loosen up with time at the ferrule.
…and the winner is…
Lendal 4 piece Kinetic Tour with bent shaft and switchlok.
I called up my vendor to order and talked with him about it for 20 minutes or so. My only consideration for a Werner was the Cyprus, and they didn’t have my size (standard 210cm bent shaft) so it would have been up to two weeks to get it. That was the deciding issue in the end.
Several good paddlers said Werner that also had Lendal blades - they didn’t really specify why, but say others are following.
I also have an issue withe the Werners being harder to hold onto - not sure why. I always feel like I have to grip it harder to keep a hold of it while I can relax my hands with the Lendal. Texture? Not sure. But the bouyancy of the Werner foam core was a real lure to me - but realized that it wasn’t something that would be used all the time, whereas the way I hold a paddle would be a constant - and the last thing I wanted was carpal tunnel issues.
I think both paddles are excellent and each has its own strengths (not any real weaknesses) that I just had to weigh. Oh yeah - and then there was that availability issue too!
Have both and
…I’m reaching for the Lendal these days. The Werner Ikeos is an excellent paddle! I thought it was my paddle forever as it is super smooth from stroke to stroke, powerful etc. Mine did delam at the edge and I know they would have replaced it, but I fixed it with epoxy as I’m too busy and lazy to mess about with warranty. My friend turned me on to Lendal. I use a Powermaster carbon straight shaft and love that paddle. I think for me it gets the nod for rock gardening, air travel, abusive behavor etc. I use a Mystic surfing. The Lendals are powerful paddles with an emphasis on forward paddling efficiency. The lock gig is awesome, and I fly with mine a lot.
I applaud JOI for giving Allister (sp?) a great retirement, and keeping the brand alive. I’m taking the possitive stand on this.
Both excellent products…comes down to what you feel is best for you. For me that’s Lendal.
For me it’s Werner. Lighter. Period.
I think any foam cored blade is more prone to abuse from rocks etc., regardless of brand. I would not take my Ikelos into rock gardens, but would a non cored Werner. With the cored blades there is a relatively thin contact point around the perimeter of the blade that’s fused together with resin. This is where my blade pulled apart, but was easily repairable. My only caution against these paddles would be harsh rock gardening where you are bashing the blades aginst rocks etc. A solid laminate would take more abuse I believe (That’s my experience). The good thing once again here is that the consumer is choosing between two excellent products and can’t go wrong. Not to mention other great paddles out there.
with you salty regarding abuse resistance. An Ikelos is my “open water” paddle. I use a Corryvreken (similar paddle w/o foam core) around rocks. And again, it all comes down to what you like best.
how bout a NF hi-pro?
my buddy just got a fiberglass NF sport-pro, a bit smaller than the hi pro, and it’s awesome. a slightly thicker shaft than most on the market, very light, and a great blade. i’m sure it’s made by the Nimbus paddle makers, same ferrule, same quality.