I am thinking of purchasing a LiquidLogic XP10 Remix and I would appreciate some feedback on this particular boat. Thanks.

Red Storm
I think the black ops/red storm color looks cool.

Your use is…?
Your profile says you want to do flat water and slow rivers. I see no whitewater in there. The Remix is a boat intended to let you do a bit of both, but like any mixed use boat will be a compromise in terms of speed for the flat water environments you list. A rec/touring transition boat, like the Manitou or Tsunami series, would be a more typical choice for the environs in your profile.

Or are you thinking of adding in WW or ocean surf down the road?

Other than that, I agree with the above post that red is a nice color… :slight_smile:

Do you already have a lake boat?
I recently purchased an XP10 (demoed the 9 and 10 a couple of times each prior to purchase). I plan to use it exclusively on moving water. I have a 16’ x 22" for use on the lakes. My first boat was a Necky Manitou 14 – the type mentioned above as a good all arounder (except whitewater – though I’m sure paddlers with more skill could take such a boat in class III, but it not really what it is designed for). I must say I really enjoy the XP10 in class I and II more than the Manitou because it is way more maneuverable. It tracks great with the skeg down, but more and more I don’t bother – just use some correcting strokes like a stern draw. Bottom line, it won’t be as versatile as say a Manitou or tsunami, but it has its place – you just have to figure if its place is your place! (I ducky class III/IV and MAY try to move in that direction with the XP10.) Ideally, XP10 is for trips where you need to carry a lot of gear through water that is alternatively flat (w/skeg down)and rocking – for example, the Grand Canyon.

I currenlty own a sea eagle 330 IK, and I do mainly flat water and slow rivers with it. I am looking to do some whitewater and some excursion kayaking. I like the idea of “duckies” for white water (I see them all the time when I go rafting). Maybe the Liquidlogic is good for mild whitewater and excursions. Thanks for all the input, it looks like a couple of kayaks is what I need.

…I bought one this past spring for use on creeks and rivers…I can say with the skeg up, you can definitely spin this boat easily, the boat has a lot of rocker. with the skeg down …it tracks well. I would not say the boat is fast, its fair speed wise on flat water.the bow tends to plow if you try to sustain a fast paddling cadence. I had a prob with the skeg not wanting to drop down but the company rep worked on it and all seems well for now. storage is good for a weekend getaway. I added tie down brackets to the forward deck and mounted a small Northwater triangular deck bag for xtra storage.

Paddled the Remix 69 for a couple years. Excels in big water. Excellent river runner. I think the BadAss outfitting is a bit of hype but plenty of people seem to like it a lot.

I really like the XP10. It does all the literature claims. Up to and including class III, the boat is really built for fun. It can carry a lot of gear if you’re overnighting too. In my own opinion, the Bad Ass Outfitting is not at all overrated. It’s some of the most comfortable , easily adjustable, quick drying seating out there. The one thing you want to be sure of is to get the right size. Be sure whether you need a 9 or a 10 before you commit to buying. Have fun either way. If you start leaning more toward ww boating after getting a taste (not in a raft) you will find the Remix 79 or 69 makes a good next step, especially if you like the outfitting.

Most importantly, test paddle them if you can, in the types of water you plan to paddle. Keep your options open.

liquid logic
Thanks, I am a big guy at 5’ll and 250lbs (I’m working on it). An outfitter once recommended the pyranah everest but I am not into serious whitewater yet. There are so many choices out there, so many types of paddling, I’m afraid one kayak is not going to suffice.

me too
Im torn between the XP 10 and a dagger axis 10.5/12 myself. My major purpose is for long steady rivers and camping, and one of them has some class 1/2. Currently im leaning towards the LL purely because i may want to get into a class 3 river thats about an hour away with a few 3 foot falls that im not sure the axis can handle. Ive been looking around to try and figure out if anyone is doing any sort of light rapid or class 2/3 with an axis and there just isnt a lot of info out there. The other notable thing is no one has customer service quite like LL afaik. GL

I bought a LL Remix XP10 a few weeks ago. I’ve been a sea kayaker for years and wanted to expand my “fleet” with a boat for surfing on Lake Michigan and for getting into whitewater. So far the XP10 is meeting those needs for me. However, I echo the comment about making sure you get the right size Remix. I never test paddled the XP9 and I wish I would have. The XP10 seems to work fine for me (@ 6’2", 190 lbs.) but it feels a little too big. Maybe it’s simply due to the fact that I’m used to a tighter sea kayak cockpit. One of the first things I did to the XP was remove the thin thigh pads and replace them with 1-1/2" thick pads that I carved from minicell foam. I also installed the hip pads that came with the boat. I also installed float bags in the bow and static grab lines across the front deck.

Here is one possible way to look at it, and I offer it for others to confirm or disconfirm:

  1. If the rivers you are planning to kayak are fast enough that you are largely content to move at the rate of the flow and be very maneuverable within that flow, then the XP10 hull shape (basically a WW hull – no V in bow or bottom) would be fine. (This hull shape would result in “pushing” the water if you try to go faster than the flow.)
  2. If the rivers you are planning to kayak are generally slow enough that you want to go faster than the flow (or you’re on a lake), a boat like the axis with it’s V front (and I think a bit of a V bottom throughout) would help you “cut through” the water.

    Q: is this a reasonable way to look at it?

    If this is reasonable, your boat selection is about really understanding the water you want to paddle and how you want to paddle it.

    The river I’m typically on runs fast enough that I’m more likely to want to slow down (to sight see or whatever) than to speed up! So, in my case the XP10 works great. I have not paddled an Axis, but I think I get the added benefit of the extreme maneuverability of the XP10 WW hull design.

    I’m always interesed in better understanding kayak hull design and related performance.

Im basically on the edge.

I would occasionally like to camp out along the slower rivers and pack for a weekend, but will likely want to paddle faster than the flow when i do.

I live closest and will most often only have time to go on the river behind my house or taunton river watershed which is no more than light class 2 in any location.

on the other hand

Access to a condo in NH on huge river with a lot of class 3-4 that flows right behind it. I wouldnt mind doing the drive and seeing these rivers every few weeks spring-fall.

…Do you think i should just buy a wave systems kinetic that someone at my work has as a river runner, and get a touring boat as well? Heck i may even lean towards a LL inuit or something more graceful in the slow water if i have two boats.

great summary
from tetonjohn. a shortish maneuverable sea kayak has a lot to offer, even for rivers, but if those rivers run fast with frequent rapids, even small ones, you may prefer a boat like the LL. on the other hand a sea kayak in the right hands, can still be a lot of fun, and have other uses, but it ain’t a dedicated river boat. a boat like the XP would be a great river tripper, play around in moving water, and even goof around on flat water boat, but it would be a dog to paddle with anyone in a sea kayak. if that isn’t the case, don’t worry about that issue. in a perfect world you would have a handful of boats, one for each specific application, but that’s not reality for most folks. you can’t go too far wrong, if your skills are decent, you can have a blast in either type of kayak on a river.

like many of us,
you need two or more boats :slight_smile:

I do alot of river & creek paddling and prefer my 12’ or 14’ Tsunami over a crossover-type boat, up to Class II. They excel at the slow and flatwater sections and for long days of paddling, and have loads of room for camping gear. The Inuit would be a great choice!

For ww-specific runs I have a LL Coupe but it’s not as versatile as a short touring kayak.

What are your thoughts on IK’s such as the Sea Eagle 385 Fasttrack or the Explorer series? The fast track is supposed to handle up to class III as well as a good flat water boat. I have not paddled one yet, but since buying the right kayak is important I would like to explore every possibility.

I am not trying to be a nudge, but especially when you are talking about WW that has a lot of different meanings.

If you want to just run thru a set of rapids as quickly as possible, basically shoot down the middle, that is one thing. If you want to be able to stop and park in eddies, or otherwise mess around with features in the water, that is another especially when you get to class III. It usually takes a considerably more refined boat for the purpose by class III to do that than the one that’ll just run down the green water.

just being clear

– Last Updated: Oct-26-11 10:43 AM EST –

I have spent a few years paddling this relatively fast river (Snake River in Wyoming) in my Manitou 14 and have had a ton of fun! At this moment, I am enjoying it more in the XP10 because of the added maneuverability: can turn upstream easily with a single stroke, can experiment catching small eddies, and it just feels better somehow not being in the longer boat (cadillac vs. sports car? -- well maybe not sports car because it isn't super fast). I was also surprised to find that I was not falling behind my wife in her Tsunami 140 -- I guess we were both going more or less at the speed of the river. Point being: a 14 foot touring boat is fine for this and is more versatile (slower moving water and lakes), but the XP10 is fun, and I guess more of a niche boat.

my thoughts on IKs

– Last Updated: Oct-26-11 1:44 PM EST –

are, like other forms of sit-on-tops, you get wet through the self-bailing holes and from waves over the top (no skirt), so it limits the weather conditions when you can be comfortable. You are often sitting in some water. I guess for Florida it may be a non-issue.

I do use IKs in class III rapids because I don't have the sit-inside skills (yet?) like a roll, and I don't really want to be wet exiting a WW kayak and swimming class III. I very rarely get tossed from my IKs in class III, so almost no swimming necessary! So, if I want to run class III (and I do), right now the IK is my only (psychologically) comfortable choice! so I make it work temperature-wise with appropriate clothing -- such as wet suit, splash wear as needed. For class I and II (and lakes), I generally prefer an enclosed cockpit, hard shell boat. I am not an expert on IKs, so I am only speaking of the ones I am aware of which are WW self-bailing -- I know there are more touring oriented ones and I don't know if you get wet in those or not.

re: well
If you are considering white water in my opinion you would be better off learning in a dedicated white water boat. I have seen a couple of people take classes in the Remix XP; and because they are so stable they don’t always make the beginner mistakes that allow you to learn why edging is so important. Or take a swim or two in easy water to learn to self rescue. They will make those mistakes later; either in a different boat or on more difficult water. The best time to learn those lessons is as a beginner, when hopefully you have an instructor there for support and safety.

For an intro river run or instead of a ducky an XP makes sense. Or if you already know how to paddle WW and want to overnight an XP makes sense.

From the Taunton area you do have whitewater within 2.5 hr: deerfield, quaboag, millers, farmington, natchaug, souhegan, piscatquog, contoocook all have class 2 or higher(3 or 4 for some of them). Zoar provides excellent instruction and both the NH & Boston chapters of the AMC provide instruction at low cost.