agree. I’ve edited the original question accordingly. Let me know if you need more details 
Thanks sing!
Out of curiosity, would that be Iceland rather than Greenland?
Ok, day touring on a lake, which means you may get windy chops but not necessarily big enough waves for surfing. So, you won’t need or benefit from the type of kayaks that have recently been developed for that. This may exclude most of the Sterling kayaks which have rising interests among the rough water day play set of kayaks, BUT at a premium price!
For your size, kayaks that would fit you and within that 50 lb limit, would be in the sub 15-16’ composite boats. (or maybe 14’ RM boats). Here are some of the top of my head that I’ve paddled and liked (I leaned towards playful daytripping):
Impex Mystic (14’x21.5")
CD Rumour (16x19.5")
Necky Eliza (15’x21")
Ones that I would be interested in trying (based on playful daytrips):
Sterling Progression, 16’x22" (playboat)
Sterling Ice Kap, 16’10"x19.75" (light touring/playboat)
Valley Gemini SP, 14’10"x22" (first because it surfing oriented)
Valley Gemini ST , 14’10"x22" (second, because it’s more tour oriented)
P&H Virgo LV corelite RM, 14’x22" (51 lbs)
sing
PS. I currently paddle surf a P&H Delphin 150. It’s heavy at 55 lbs but surfs REALLY well (and rolls easily but not a necessary attribute for me since I roll waveskis that are much more difficult because of the “flat” shape). I also have a Impex Mystic RM that that is 14’x23" (about 45 lbs) that I think is a good daytripper and playboat (but not to the caliber of the Delphin). I have kept this boat because it was a limited pilot run and never became an ongoing part of the Impex line. So, it’s a rare RM boat that I am reluctant to get rid of since it fits me well.
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Both have been done, I was thinking of the trips using early Nordkapps. May have gotten locations mixed up.
But here re a more recent trip around Greenland. You’d be doing darned well to keep up with them in their ruddered kayaks.
“In 2007 Freya and Greg Stamer completed the fastest-ever sea kayak circumnavigation of Iceland in 33 days .”
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Could throw a CD Karla LV into the mix. 52 lb is fiberglass & 48 in Kevlar (at a $400 US premium).
I started paddling a Delphin 150 last spring and really enjoy it. The price is very reasonable as well. The Aries is the composite version.
@Ilan thank you for filling in the gaps a bit. I understand the sentiment of ‘wearing your kayak’ but have you actually experienced that? I ask because some newer paddlers struggle with a snug fit until they have gained some confidence and learned some technique. There are some great, reasonably inexpensive kayaks that offer a lot of adjustability in fit. The Dagger Stratos 14.5 S would be one. A boat like that would allow you to really play with the individual fit so you can learn what you like and don’t like. It would grow with your skills and let you ‘tighten her up’ when you want. It would be an easy sell when you’re done and ready to move on. At that point, you’ll have a much better idea of what you want before dropping major coin.
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Make sense. But I do own a similar boat. Old Town Castine 140. On sale now
Thanks for your feedback High_Desert!
Actually had a lead on a used Aries 150. But, when I read the Diolen “expedition” composite lay up put the boat at almost 60 lbs… I told the seller that I was passing. I am sure the stiffness would improve the performance but I doubt significantly enough to offset the weight disadvantage.
I am spoiled by waveskis. Don’t want to wrestle with heavier kayaks that need to be cartopped. My aging body still enjoys adrenaline fun… Not so much weightlifting workouts (outside of the gym). 
Now that you mentioned the Karla, I have been looking at videos of that in the surf. A LV version is definitely on my look-out-for list.
sing
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Sure most boats can be paddled without a skeg or rudder. I very rarely use the rudder on my boat. But would you seriously want to cover 20+ miles in a strong stern quartering wind by paddling on one side with the occasional stern rudder corrective stroke?
I’d rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
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I’ve not paddled this boat, but it looks very interesting. Maybe not a beginner boat, but if you get hooked you will advance quick enough so that’s not really an issue.
Have to say that I am not sure why one would want a 17’ plus long kayak to paddle an inland lake…
If Greenland style is desired (including the “wear the kayak” approach), I think the the CD Rumour would be a better choice @ 16’ x 19.75" and 46 lbs. This is a boat to grow into for ambitious, smaller novice with a roll. I have heard even smaller paddlers say this is a “tippy” kayak. I didn’t find it so, but I had a time in my Greenland SOF that was 17’x18".
sing
PS. I also assume it’s also easier to find a CD kayak than one that is imported from overseas…
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Thanks sing. checking…
What about the Delta 15s?
Sing, I’m curious about your response. I can’t think of many reasons why a person would not choose a 17’+ kayak for inland lakes. It’s simply a matter of preferring the performance for your paddling, finding what you enjoy the most. It’s hard to find an inland lake with a concrete ramp that doesn’t have powerboats with 100, 200, and even more horse power. It’s hard for me to imagine any paddlecraft somehow being too much for even small lakes. I’m almost always going to prefer a 17’+ kayak if I’m going to paddle on an inland lake. A faster glide, a gentler displacement of water, it’s very rewarding to me. There is an art to gracefully maneuvering a kayak that provides these characteristics, and I enjoy this piece of it too.
Exploring what it is that you don’t find agreeable about it could prove useful discussion for Ilan’s decision.
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My shortest kayak is 16’ 10” (see if anyone knows why 
) I use my kayaks on inland lakes, rivers and coastal areas. None of my kayaks have rudders, in 40 years I’ve never had one so I guess I don’t know what I’m missing. I paddle primarily with an Aleutian style paddle because I like it. Try as many different boats as possible, get comfortable and have fun. There is no “right” answer, what ever feels best to you is what’s right for you.
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You are right. It is/was my personal preference.
I enjoyed my Greenland SOF, Ronin. But, I started to paddle alone more and more. I started avoiding flatwater more (it’s boring and not an enjoyable workout for me) and favored chops and waves for my paddling conditions. (Ronin’s skeletal and skinless sibling - the more rockered, Kaze, sits on a rack in by back yard now.) I wore that kayak with its 17’x18"(x7" back deck). To this day, I don’t go on flat water except when I am fishing. Anyway, I tested my SOF on a wet exit (I hear the Greenland purist say “roll or die”) but I surfed enough to have experienced being blasted out of my kayak by big curling waves. Even with float bags, once the SOF fills up, it’s impossible to get enough water out for a stablized paddle. Guess I could try to roll, brace and paddle the waterlogged SOF to shore in conditions. Anyway, not a fun prospect for someone playing alone in winter conditions.
So, picked up a 17.5’x20" (10" backdeck) Greenland style S&G with bulkheads. Frankly, it was not a good surfer but a better point A to B kayak (not my thing). But, in bigger conditions, its higher and longer profile led to more weathercocking and more need to deploy the skeg. (Something not needed nor available with my SOF). Since I only do day trips and play, I had more volume than I needed. And this volume just impacted more and more the handling in conditions. I also had an Impex Montauk, 16’x22", which I found actually a sort of playful hull in conditions. But, this too had more volume than I needed since I don’t do overnighters. I had gotten rid of the Montauk as well. When I paddled the shorter and lower volume Mystic and Eliza, It was a relevation that these felt more like my SOF in feel. For me, it took less energy and offer more control in the conditions that I prefer to paddle in. Similar to my SOF but with bulkheads.
As you know, I am primary a paddle surfer, so my Delphin, Mystic RM and RTM Disco (SOT) are my surfing “longboats.” (The Delphin wins as the best surfer of the three.) I have a Scupper Pro (SOT), Hobie Revolution and Hornbeck solo canoe purely for fishing, alone or with friends. Funny thing… while I never did overnighters with my SINK, I do use my Scupper Pro SOT for weeklong fishing/camping trips in the Boston Harbor Islands. While not a SINK? Because they just aren’t a good open platform for fishing equipment and hauling in big stripers. Horse for the course.
My other crafts are two WW boats and 5 well used waveskis. I went through 4 surf specific Kayaks and then to waveskis. Waveskis are simply more safe for winter surfing because I can remount. Nothing worse than coming out and getting blasted out of surf kayak and having to swim to shore in solo dawn patrol session in winter surf. (Done it several times. It is always scary and takes mind control and adrenline based training to remain calm to take that long swim back to shore.) The waveskis get the most usage and provide the best stoke/enjoyment for me when clean swells are rolling in. I admit that waveskiing is my paddling addiction.
Ultimately, I am more about “playing” in the ocean and less interested in “paddling” it. The lighter and less equipment I have to get together and lug to go play, the better. The easier I can control my craft in waves and textured conditions, also the better.
Back to Ilan, I understand his desire to progress from the Castine. My first SINK was the ruddered CapeLookout (14.5’x24"). I taught myself to roll and brace with that boat in nearby ponds and lakes. But that boat was heavy and the rudder (more weight) seemed overkilled on flat water. Early on, I was subtly given the message that the CapeLookout was not really a “seakayak” by some of the ocean paddlers that I went with to learn the ocean environment. That led me to getting a CD Squall, then the Impex Montauk, then building SOFs, so on, and so on.
Ilan will have his/her own route through the paddling journey.
sing
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So, here is the story of how I ended up with a 17.5’x20" Greenland S&G that I wounded up not really enjoying. After paddling my SOF for awhile (and my attendant safety concern), I saw a post and pictures by a hobbyist S&G builder in Portland, ME for a bulkhead Greenland style boat. I went up to meet him and to test paddle. Only things I bought with me was my ocean cockpit skirt, GP and PFD. I met him at East Beach on the Eastern Promenade of Portland. We got on the water, I put the S&G though the rolling, sculling and static brace manuevers. One, for me to get a sense of the fit of the kayak and, two, to reassure the seller that I had the necessary skills to deal with a possible capsize. After that, he and I paddled east across Casco Bay in relatively calm conditions. After spending some time paddling around Hog Island/Fort Gorges and taking a bio break, we paddled a bit north and then turned west back towards the Eastern Promenade. By this time, the westerly winds have picked up to 15 knots plus sustained. We were paddling into 2’ chops. What a thrill!!! It was a fun, straight paddle back. I think I was high on endorphins. I paid and took the S&G home.
After paddling that S&G for awhile, I came to realize that the S&G was more of a touring rather than a surfing boat. The lower volume bow tended to bury into a wave trough and lead to broach and bongo ride. Not my kind of surfing style. Then in textured water and windy conditions, I came to know that the boat had a weathercocking (turning into the wind) tendency. This required using the skeg and/or bringing ballast for the rear bulkhead to mitigate the weathercocking. For me, the S&G was too much rigermarole for a boat that I want/expect for a fun daytripping playboat.
sing
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I’ve never paddled a Delta 15 but people I know what have them really like the kayak. I got to see one up close this past summer and was quite impressed with the fit and finish, and its made in Canada too!
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That’s very cool sing. I didn’t know, or didn’t remember, that you had been into skin on frame and stitch and glue kayaks. I always think of you as a waveski and sea kayak surfer. Yeah, the bongo ride seems just a kayak that has lost most all control. My normal regular kayak launch has been the ocean beach since 2006, and I realized pretty quickly that I wanted to steer my kayak in, not just be forced in parallel to a wave without any ability to steer. Before that, I spent some time kayaking out of Boston. I was doing some weekend trips for whitewater runs there, but more regularly launching sea kayaks from South Boston and Quincy and paddling through the Boston Harbor Islands, along with paddling the Neponset and Charles Rivers. There was one island that was still unrestricted and/or undeveloped/unpatrolled at the time, and I met this great family that camped out there regularly, and welcomed me into their island tribe for some weekends camping. That was always really enjoyable.
So I’ve been going out to play in the surf regularly since 2006. I have a waveski, but I haven’t used it as much as I thought I might. I found out it’s definitely a surfing craft, and maybe as good for paddling somewhere as a short surf board. It’s really designed to surf like the surf boards. Sea kayak surfing is an entirely different experience for me. I’m on the SE coast, the beaches are sand, and there’s lots of shoaling around the many inlets. So what I’m looking for is how the waves are forming across the shoals. Waves that crumble rather than dump. The soft, pillowy waves. Taking off and allowing the kayak to immediately broach, or even steering my kayak into a broach, rarely make sense to me, because you can’t really do clean top turns in a sea kayak. I can get away with messy top turns on top of a foam pile once in a while, but this isn’t a clean top turn in front of the pocket of a wave like you see among the well-skilled board and ski/surf kayak surfers. I familiarize myself with my kayak’s steering capabilities, and I try to ride in along the shoals to get the longest possible rides. So there’s cutting back and forth, there’s learning when I can steer more to move to one side or the other, there’s learning when the wave is steepening up, so that I have to keep mostly perpendicular to the wave, or I’ll broach and be out of control in front of a foam pile, or simply have the wave slip under me and have the rest of that beautiful wave and ride drift away without me. If the wave is going to be dumpy at one point along the ride, I’ll start riding very straight in front of it, let my kayak surge more in front of the wave when its about to dump, just enough to not bury the bow, don’t slow it down at this point. Instead let it glide, or even try to keep up speed with some really quick strokes, until I’m riding the foam pile, and then see how things form from there and keep on. If I find a spot where I can get rides without dumping waves, which are the lines in that I’m always seeking, even better. For sea kayak surfing, I have a few sea kayaks that I love, a Current Designs Sisu, a Point 65 Whisky, a Tiderace Xtreme. They have high volume bows, and are slightly rounded to nearly flat across the bottom, with no keel line. They are a blast for sea kayak surfing. They increase your margins for maintaining control. There’s more possibility of spinning them back downwave off of the top of a foam pile to continue the ride if you do momentarily lose control. I’ve surfed them alongside Delphins and Sterling kayaks and Romanys and whatever other surf-oriented sea kayak designs you find out there. I’ve had the opportunity to demo many of them. I’ve also done a lot of beach surfing in my sea kayaks, where I have learned to end rides by turning off to my left or right, and then peeling off over the top of the wave where best. If I’m doing significant bongo riding, I’m thinking about my mistake. Such as, if a foam pile is going to grab me and keep pushing me towards shore anyway, I won’t be able to peel off over the top, what could I have done to be mostly perpendicular to the wave and maintain my steering control instead?
But if I’m in open water in the ocean, lakes, or rivers, or even winding through tight little streams, I favor the designs with that faster, more efficient glide.
“Ultimately, I am more about “playing” in the ocean and less interested in “paddling” it.” I think I fall somewhere in the middle. Where your addiction is waveskiing, I love propelling a nice efficient sea kayak across the water. The active paddling is a big part of my addiction. I like to keep room for myself in a kayak to maintain involvement of my legs and lower torso in my strokes. So I don’t minimize cockpit volume to the point of being detrimental to those type of things. A surf skier would never suggest that the purpose of length is to provide more volume. Need for volume isn’t really the thing with length most of the time. But you can maximize length that suits you with an eye towards minimizing the extra volume that results. That’s what I would be looking for in a lake kayak for single day outings. But that’s me, and it is all personal preference.
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Again, I realize that I let my own preferences/biases kicked in the above post. Of course, there are folks, like you, who would enjoy the greater speed afforded by a longer waterline. My caveate would be that a longer waterline may not benefit the smaller and less strong paddler who end up needing more strength can be mustered to paddle a bigger boat. And, in windy, choppy conditions, a shorter waterline may be offset the control issues that come sometimes with longer boats with higher volume.
With respect to my evolution, I started paddling over 25 years ago, with the notion of being a “seakayaker” since I live very close to the ocean. Back then, there were very few short and/or “LV” performance oriented boats designed specifically for smaller paddlers, e.g Impex Mystic, Necky Eliza, Nigel Foster (now CD) Rumour. Also, there were assumptions about what dimensions a “real” sea kayak should have – minimum of 16’ and no wider than 22-23". (I alluded to this biase with discussion about my experience with the WS CapeLookout). As a result, a lot of smaller paddlers and women ended in way bigger kayaks than they need or could paddle more efficiently. To this day, I kick myself for not taking/buying a used Mariner Coaster that was nearby because I got caught up with the prevailing stereotype about what constitutes a “sea worthy” kayak. (Matt Broze used to come onto Paddling.net occaisonally back then. I had some interesting off-line discussions with him about “prevailing wisdom” of some PNet seakayakers.)
At any rate, I started surfing, storm (nor’easter) paddling and doing whitewater specifically to build my skills for “sea kayaking.” For skills development, I spent a brief summer hanging around Turner Wilson and his (in)famous “Pond Scum” on their weekly rolling clinics at Walden Pond, learning greenland rolling techniques. I was developing an affinity to tight fitting boats from that. Hence the foray into building SOFs and carving various GPs of various lengths and widths (most of these “experiments” had been given away to local paddlers). For me, the rolling and bracing techniques were just means to have fun safely in the churned up ocean. I remember asking Walden folks to go out and surf with me when the swells were rolling in. I think a couple of the Pond Scum joined me once but I began to feel these folks were more “rollaholics” who sought acquisition of the full array of Greenland techniques as an “end” rather the “means” to something else. Pond rolling was more fun for them than surfing. As much as I benefited from the Pond Scum practices, I was/am an endorphin/adrenaline junky and I drifted away from that crowd. (I also drifted away from local seakayaking club for different reasons.) I took up ww paddling to get my adrenaline and skills development fix when the surf were not rolling in. I spent two spring training weekends with NHAMC WW clinic and then assisted coaching with them for 3 spring weekends. I enjoy WW more than flatwater paddling. Anyway, I don’t consider myself a “sea kayaker” anymore, whatever that means.
With respect and benefit to the original poster, the past decade has seen an increasing prevalence of specifically designed “LV” class kayaks for the full array of paddling venues/preferences. Some of these kayaks are sub 16’ and some are much longer than that BUT all are still designed ground up for the smaller paddler. I dare say that some of the constant moaning and groaning of the smaller paddlers right here on Paddling.net/com over the years have helped bring attention to a large segment of paddlers that was previously overlooked. The bad thing right now is that COVID has put a damper on the supply chain. The inventory and the numbers of retailers that carried performance kayak retailers have severely diminished… 
Your Boston Harbor Island adventure was interesting. There are two islands that I can think of that fit what you are describing – unsupervised and not patroled. Most likely you saw Rainsford Island. It has a small and large drumlin connected by a split of land. There used to be a small hotel there but, more notoriously, a quarantined hospital/hospice of sorts. Only the foundation is barely visible. However, if you had the chance to walk the trail up the larger drumlin, at the top you would have seen young trees but also big divots here and there in the ground. These are old, unmarked gravesites where the wood coffins had rotted away and the ground indented into those spaces… There are quite few of those visible. The only other unmonitored island which hopefully no one should camp on is Gallops island. As beautiful as it looks, it used to be old industrial dumping site. The island is full of buried and exposed asbestos. Neither the state nor the city want to deal with the cost of cleaning and filling it up, like was done with Spectacle Island. The latter had been a garbage dump for the city of Boston but was covered up and capped with landfill from Boston’s Big Dig. Spectacle has a modern visitor center on it, several miles of trails with spectacular views of Boston, a swimming beach and free lessons and kayaks managed by summer state employees. It is great place to visit by ferry, or for paddlers by kayak launched from South Boston, Dorchester or Quincy.
Like your leads of on composite surfing longboats. Been keeping an eye out for myself to have something stiffer/lighter than the Delphin 150.
sing
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