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As you can see, I am not much of a cyber guy. I have very near zero knowledge of how this it all works.
Last weekend I went to visit some friends at a party above Carson City. They live in a canyon near the National Forest. There was a herd of mule deer in the yard, and a black bear was observed from the house about a half hour before we arrived. I went into the aspen forest below the house with a friend who is a wildland firefighter. We found tracks and scat but the bear was wary of humans. They seem to be everywhere this year due to drought and all of the fires.
This happens every 2 years at my house when momma bear puts the run to last years cubs.
This was the one from 2 years ago.
Kids, what can you do with them.
This week my neighbor was out riding behind the house on public land. Clear as day, in the sagebrush, bear tracks. Because of the fires and the drought they have come down out of the mountains, and are wandering in the sagebrush. I took my dog out yesterday looking for tracks. We did not find any and she did not alert on anything but coyote sign.
Ppine, I talked to my Mom on the phone yesterday. She told me the same thing. She’s outside Carson City and the bears haver been around her yard trying to get the garbage cans and the dog food. She’s now keeping them in the garage and only talking the cans out when the garbage truck comes down the road.
She has 3 dogs and they bark, but lately the bears have not run off when they bark. That may get dangerous if they loose all fear. I told her to keep the old 30-30 handy. Very unlikely to need it, but it’s not a bad thing to have close by. Mom is not what I’d call a "shooter’ but she’s no pushover either.
I went to school with the Sheriff’s deputy there, and I called him. He said if the bear is in the yard (which is fenced with chain link, but they get in anyway) and won’t run off, or if the bears try to fight a dog, or is trying to get into any building or door it’s OK to shoot. I know my mom will too, if she feels she has to.
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Using firearms in a neighborhood is a terrible idea.
Yup,----------- but she’s not in a neighborhood
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Old thread but a new story. Might interest a few readers.
https://www.ammoland.com/2022/01/wyoming-bear-attack-on-elk-hunters-september-2021/Wyoming: Bear Attack on Elk Hunters September, 2021 - AmmoLand Shooting Sports News
A good and detailed report. I have packed horses on the eastern margin of Yellowstone, but it was in 1988 during the fires. We carried rifles like a .444 Marlin which fits well on a horse. Since that time the population of grizz has greatly increased around the margins of the Park. We saw tracks but no grizz in 10 days.
Hunters probably run into bears more than any other group because they are always sneaking around quietly in the dark. This bear took over this kill site and was likely defending it.
Experience says that a .45 ACP is a terrible defense round for large bears in the 500 pound range. A 10mm is much better especially with Buffalo Bore ammo. I hope it is obvious how much better a rifle would have been at close range. In many ways a close encounter with a bear at 20 yards is best thwarted by using bear spray. I would say these guys were pretty lucky. They fired a lot of rounds. Having time to reload is unusual for sure.
People need to understand that the delisting criteria developed by the US Fish and Wildlife Service has been met for grizz for the last 12 consecutive years. Politics and the court system refuse to allow grizz to go from protection to management in Wyoming and Montana. These people were right to fear prosecution for protecting their lives.
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You are correct on every point Ppine.
I hunt up there and spend time in the Grizzly country all the time. Been doing it most of my life. Those big bears are no joke!
Hunters do have a lot of run-in with them, but the single group that seems to get mauled or killed the most is not the hunters, but the recreational back-packers and sometimes the mountain fly fishermen. Hunters are hunting, so they are looking for movement and by the very nature of the activity are alert, far more then the spring and summer back-packer crowd.
As a gunsmith and (now-former) outfitter and guide I see the weapons many of these folks carry. Big lever actions are very popular as are 12 gauge pumps, and 44 magnum handguns. The one that is now gaining a LOT of popularity for that use as personal protection guns is the 458 SOCOM on the AR15 planform. Light, short, fast on target, far lighter recoil then most others large bore guns and the stock is 100% linear so the recoil is straight to the rear with almost no muzzle rise. That means a new shooter can learn to shoot one well and fast in a far shorter time then trying to learn to use a heavy caliber bolt or even a lever action and as an auto the repeat shots are faster then any other.
Yet the gun for it’s impressive ballistics is not hard on your shoulder at all (It is on the ears, but so are 44 mags, 10 MMs, 454 Casulls and so on. you just have to accept that is you play that game. )
But the key (as was noted by you, and the man who wrote the repost) is actually more about the bullets used then it is about the gun and to some extent the cartridge use.
However, by far, the MOST important thing is the man or woman doing the shooting. Keeping alert so you don’t get blind-sided in the #1 thing that is most important---- and the thing that is in 2nd place and just as important is keeping your head and not panicking. Keep cool, look at the sights and keep shooting until you either have no target left or you are out of ammo. The fact the one man was able to reload his gun in the middle of a fight is not something you see with most folks, and proves his degree of training. Combat veterans are used to it, but they are few and far between and gaining such a level of experience is not something most folks would like to amass. You can’t learn it without the iron-willed dedication to learn, and it’s a subject that is brutal, non-forgiving and the student of such things needs to see it as something that is as serious as it gets.
Glad we are in agreement szihn.
Combat training is fine, but 31 rounds hardly stopped this bear.
I really don’t like black guns, so I am out of date.
The density of bears is much higher now than any time in the last 60 years around Yellowstone. I hope people take them seriously. These hunters made some bad mistakes but lived to tell the tale.
I worked in SE Alaska and saw bears every day. At first it was unnerving, but then they became part of the landscape. Staying out of the way of bears takes some skill more than just carrying weapons. People that shoot bears in self-defense either made some mistakes or were very unlucky.
The density of bears is mostly related to their food supply. They are mostly vegetarian, so a lush landscape is what supports high densities, like Vancouver Island and Admiralty Island. That means a lot of precipitation and a long growing season. Yellowstone is drier and has a much more harsh climate in comparison.
Correct again.
Grizzlies are more carnivorous than black bears but even so the weather and growth of plants effect their food supply because (a) they eat what grows, but also (b) they eat what eats the plants.
So when drought strikes an area (like around Carson City, Nevada) the black bears will move to follow the food and water.
In Wyoming we have not been drought struck, and have hade good snow for several years, but the populations of the Grizzlies is spreading at a unexpected rate simply because they will compete with each other for range and food and the larger bears drive the smaller ones away so the range of their habitat has spread over X3 in the last 35 years. Because of that attitude of protecting their territory (food source) is the exact reason the inland grizzle is so dangerous. The more they have to work for food the more they guard that source of food.
I live next to the Wind River Reservation and only last year they had two trouble-bears that had to be re-located only about 30 mils from my home. I live close to Shoshoni, Wyoming and if you look at a map you’ll see it’s a long way from Yellowstone. About 120 miles. But today the state lands of Wyoming have more grizzlies then the 2 federal parks, Teton and Yellowstone combined.
I guess the bears never got the memo that they were supposed to stay inside the park.
You know the old joke : Where does a grizzle bear sleep? Anywhere it wants to!
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Szihn,
Thanks for the update. Very interesting there are more grizz on state land. WG&F is a very proactive agency. What are their plans for managing them?
We get the problem black bears from Lake Tahoe air lifted to the Pine Nut Range behind my house.
Thank goodness no bears on Long Island. 
. I’m safe. I guess there’s some up on the Hudson River.
Wonder when last one walked on Long Island?
Ppine 4 times now the State Game and Fish Dept. was going to open a season on them for management, but all 3 times our Whimpey governor refused to stand up to the litigants at the federal levels and so he let them close down the plans. Stock men ranchers and most resident outdoorsmen were outraged, but that’s the nature of politicians. When hunting north of Dubois and along either side of the highway to Moran Junction going clear top Montana and south of the highway about 70 miles I NEVER go into those areas without seeing grizzlies. Many times we have to hunt hard to find elk, but you can’t seem to avoid the bears. They are in those areas in very large numbers. So the State agency is all about regular management but the non-resident and non informed “greenies” (most from back east, who have never even seen a grizzly) are quick to file in the federal court system. The Federal parks have to obey the dictates of the federal courts but the State DOESN’T -----and if we just had a governor that had a spine and was not trying to climb up the political ladder we’d not have the problems we do. Stock killings and killings of pets are quite common and attacks on humans not near as uncommon as most folks are told by the media who is so well controlled and censored by those that want to control the narrative.
Funny how I read all about Wyoiming Grizzlies and Wolves in “news” papers and magazines, and much of what I read is pure BS, but those that live here and live around them are ignored.
In an active year I can be out in the field during the hunting seasons and also for firewood cutting about 50 days a year. As I said above I NEVER go out for more then 2 days without seeing grizzlies, and some days I will se 5-6 in a single day. (mom’s with cubs, the most dangerous) They are NOT rare around here.
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A .45 with personal defense hollowpoints? Good against a two legged threat, not so much for large four legged predators. I hope he decides to in the very least explore other loads than personal defense ammo, like hardcast lead or a monolithic solid for in the woods, and maybe consider a different caliber all together for carry in grizzly country.
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I’d agree with all that NH Trucker.
Any gun may be better then no gun, but 45 ACP with HP ammo is a load designed to dump energy fast and not pernitrate all that deep. That’s NOT what’s needed for large, heavy and dangerous animals.
The full power 10MM is getting much more popular these days. It’s got enough power to do the job if shot well, and shooting it well is far easier for a new shooter to do then it would be from a heavily loaded 45 Colt, 44 magnum or 454 Casull. All of those 3 are better ballistically, but a so-so hit with more power is not as good as a good hit with less power.
I am a VERY experienced handgunner and I like my big powerful revolvers. I had to replace the barrel on my 1st 44 magnum when I was 19 years old from shooting it enough to erode the rifling in front of the forcing cone. So that gives you an idea of how much shooting I have in my younger years. But despite my appreciation for the powerful revolvers I am quick to recommend a 10 mm to young outdoorsmen based on the merits it has, and the ease of learning how to shoot it well.
As shooters, we have a tendency to recommend what we like in many cases when something else may actually be better for someone else. So unless someone has a reloading set-up, and the ability (and desire) to fire many thousands of rounds, working up from lesser power levels to full power levels, the big revolvers may be a steeper learning curve then most outdoorsmen have time or money for.
As for me, I still love my 44s and I usually carry my 454 when I am up where the "fuzzy-nasties’ live. But 50+ years of experience is a factor. That goes for the OPs subject too. Black Bears are not as large as grizzlies for the most part, but they are FAR more numerous in most states. Around Wyoming it’s a saying *“a black bear is more likely to bite or claw you, but if you get attacked by a black bar you have a good chance of surviving it. A grizzly is more likely to kill you”.
A good reliable handgun is not just something nice to have along when in grizzly country. More folks are attacked every year by black bears then they are by grizzlies. In fact, feral dogs and other such animals may also be a threat. Better to have one and not need it then to need one and not have it.
These days the gun-rags seldom have much written about the old 357 Magnum, but they should. The 357 is still a VERY versatile and effective cartridge and in large frame handguns it’s not all that hard to learn to shoot well. Truth be told, the 357 probably suits the needs for 19 out of 20 outdoorsmen better then the 44 mag. In the Single Action style the kick is not hard to control at all and very few people (including smaller shooters ) find them hard to use. A good Ruger SA is a very useful and reliable tool for the outdoorsman or woman to have along. VERY under rated, yet extremely accurate and reliable.
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