So after using the Oldtown dirigo a few times, My wife really likes it, my youngest son does too, but it is a little big for him I think. Anyway I like it but might let me wife take it and move to another one. 2 I found local are a 17 ft Wilderness Systems Sealution touring kayak and a
17 ft Perception Eclipse Sea lion touring kayak. first what would be a fair price for these? and maybe this should have been first, but should I even consider either of these, or should I be looking for something closer to the 14â i have now? thanks
The rule of thumb is half the retail cost if they are in good shape. Those boats have some age on them which could be immaterial depending on condition.
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awesome thanks. I am still not sure how quickly I will be buying another one, but I know I will end up with 2 more with in the next year. One for me/ or my wife, and one for my youngest son.
Take a look at the Swift Kiwassa 14 in Used Kayaks. Awesome boat.
I own a 16.5 foot Perception Sea Lion Shadow,
DSCN5000 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
the 17 foot version is the Sea Lion Eclipse (which my friend Thor owns)
IMG210215-160642F by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
I love nearly everything about my Shadow but for the fact I find the cockpit depth is just a smidge too low for me. I am short at 5â 6" and have a 28" inseam, but my thighs are quite thick and when I am seated in the Shadow the backs of my thighs are against the top edge of the seat pan and the tops of my thighs are in firm contact with the thigh hooks, even if my foot pegs are taken forward to a point I canât touch them with my toes.
So my experience with the Sea Lion Shadow is that itâs best for paddlers who are probably less then 190 pounds. (I am 188 pounds) I installed gas-peddle foot controllers and refitted all the deck lines and bungees and I also bough new hatch gaskets for it because I thought at the time it was going to be one Iâd just love, but now in hindsight I may have spent money I should not have because itâs honestly just a bit too small for me.
Now if the Sea Lion is an Eclipse you are good to go if you are bigger. Thor is 6â 5" tall and 265 pounds and he fills the 17 foot Eclipse up to a point itâs maxed out, but he does well in it.
I hope this is helpful info for you. Depending on the paddlers size and weight the Sea Lion is very easy to edge and turn and handles very well for me, rolls well due to itâs low rear deck and overall I like it very much, but if you are over about 5â 9" tall or over about $165 pounds the 16.5 foot Shadow may not be the ideal kayak for you. If the kayak is an Eclipse it âs best for 180 to maybe 240 pound paddlers of 5â 8" up to about 6â 4" tall
I am in Wyoming and there are not many kayakers around here compared to the costal states, but if you are anywhere close Iâd volunteer to let you ty both my kayak and I know Thor would let you try his too.
Is the Sealution the fiberglass or plastic version? A few of my friends have Wilderness Systems touring kayaks from the 1990s. Their designs are Greenland-style but with higher than usual initial stability, so they are somewhat beginner-friendly I think. But they are harder than most to roll. When inspecting the boat, make sure the footpegs/rudder controls work, and the neoprene covers that seal the hatches are still OK.
Thanks again for the help. I have not seen the kayaks in person yet. they are about an hour away. I wanted to get an idea if i should even be looking at either, before I made the trip. I donât mind driving a couple hours, but it is further then I want to go if I am not pretty sure I am picking it up. 
I will ask if it is FG or plastic. I will get the ages if available and post a pic with the price. I am 6â3" and about 275lbs down from 350⌠I plan on losing another 50 or so.
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this is what he said. Both of the 17 footers are plastic. The Sealion is in very good shape except for wear on the seat and it needs a bracket for the rudder. It has all the hatch covers. The Sealution is in good shape, but doesnât look as good. The rudder is fine, but it has no hatch covers.
also has the other 2 smaller ones, Sundance - $325
Rush $250
I like the color of the Sealution, but to me they both look pretty rough. the sealion looks ok from the pic, but IMO well used. can anything be done to the finish on the Sealution? is this a fair price for any? compared to the one I just bought, and the condition it is in, these seem a little high to me. he said he has a lot of paddles too, and is checking to see if he has any 250 or 260cm ones.
Kayak parts seller Topkayaker has replacement bracket parts and kits for the Perception boats. They also have hatch covers for many older models and can help you find which ones you need for a boat. Great resource for anyone with an older kayak.
As for the prices, I have bought probably 20 used touring kayaks over the years and $300 to $500 is the usual price range. These are boats that would have been close toe $1000 new.
Most older boats will need new bungie lacing and possibly the non-stretch perimeter lines but that is an easy and cheap fix.
As for the finish, plastic boats get scratched and scuffed â doesnât affect the performance. Never a factor to me in buying a boat. More important is whether the hull bottom is oil-canned or the plastic appears dry and cracked, indicating UV damage from being left outdoors for months or years.
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thanks, I am not worried about scratches and stuff, but it looked pretty sun bleached. I am afraid it may be a little brittle in those spots. I guess my other problem is, turns out the kayaks are a few states away, but he is making a trip up here and is brining some up to sell. I would have to have him haul it up and then I would feel like I have to buy it, without even setting in it. If I donât fit or like it I would have to do something with it. the 3rd thing, there is another 17â sealion in a lot better shape, for $500 that is with in 30 mins. only thing stopping me on that is it is yellow, and that is a color I refuse to own. sorry for anyone who likes yellow. Now if I could convince my wife, there are a pair of 18â kayaks with trailer in great shape for $1200. one of the kayaks is a 2018, the other is a few years older but both are really nice.
I would definitely confirm parts are available and what was needed to be done was doable by me before buying n boat. The boat wit the missing hatch cover to me seems like you need to make sure that a source is available for those hatch covers - I fear they are not available now. No hatch covers means the boat would not be sea worthy and shouldnât be used.
You are looking at both recreational class (the sundance and rush, plus your dirigo) and sea kayaks. In case you donât understand the difference, there is an article in California Kayaker Magazine on the basic categories of kayaks. Can be read online in issue #10 at California Kayaker Magazine - South West's source for paddlesports information.
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I agree with Peter that you are all over the map in considering kayak models with widely different capabilities. It feels like you are so anxious to get something NOW that you are not stepping back and evaluating what kind of waters you are most apt to be launching in and what type of paddling you are realistically planning to do. You may waste a lot of time and mileage just chasing any kayak that you like the price or look of. Figure out what kind of boat you reallly need and want first instead of focusing on a âbargainâ. Not a bargain if it doesnât suit your needs.
18â kayaks (which you say are âreally niceâ) are typically open water sea touring kayaks, usually higher volume which might not be appropriate for your wife, depending on her size. That is not ALWAYS the case â I have an 18â older Northwest Discover that is scaled for the small to medium paddler (itâs an ocean touring model that was originally in the fleet of an outfitter on Puget Sound.) Itâs pretty heavy and has a lot of room for carrying gear for kayak camping. But it would not be my choice for most of the paddling I do (for which I have other models.)
Being picky about color is only going to further narrow your options. You want pretty, cheap and only certain colors. Good luck.
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thanks, for the advice. First though I wouldnât say I am picky about the color by any means. I just wont buy a yellow one. any other color from hot pink to polka dots is fine. as far as being all over the place on what I want, I know I want one that I can use in mostly flat water on lakes. some of the lakes have some waves. not like the ocean. I also want something 14â plus for me. the dirigo or equivalent is fine, but I would not be apposed to longer sea kayaks. do I need one? nope, but for that matter I donât need any kayaks. the other 2 smaller kayaks only came into the picture because of my youngest son. my wife is fine with my dirigo, if I get another kayak, or she is fine with just about any other. she could care less about getting a proper kayak that fits her. my other son has a lifetime sot kayak from academy sports. it was one of the cheapest 10â ones they had. he likes it and uses it for fishing. the wife likes it too. though after using mine she was amazed by the difference in paddling the dirigo. not enough to want to spend more then $300-$400 for her though. again to back to what I am looking for, is a sea kayak the best for me? maybe not, but if it is a good craft, and a good price, and I can fit in it (some might be narrow) then I honestly am not experienced enough that i would probably know the difference. unless i was to do 2 different ones back to back or something. To me it is like driving my Yukon vs my X5. yukon drives nice it is roomy and comfy. but when I get in the X5 i can immediately tell how big the yukon feels. the x5 has enough room and is comfy too, but doesnât handle like a lumbering wildebeest. I have also read about the differences in Kayaks, and from what I could tell and understand, either of the ones I have looked at would be fine for what I would do with them. but As I have said I am new and I do not claim to know it all, and I am not too proud to say I am wrong. I do listen to advice given. thats why I ask questions. so thanks again for all of the help!
Where do you live? Whether youâre in an area where there are a lot of good available used kayaks would influence my advice. In my area, I probably would pass those up â theyâre old, you say they mightâve been sun-bleached, and one of them is missing hatch covers. You could find something better in my area. But, I know in certain parts of the country. The pickings are slim, and in this case, it might be worth checking these out.
I am in the Saint Louis area. I also think I am going to pass on those.
I donât know anything about the kayak market there, but ideally you would find something newer with intact hatch covers whether 14 feet or longer.
If you are planning on kayaking with your wife, she is not going to be happy if she ends up with a kayak that is less capable than yours such that she cannot keep up with you or paddle in the same locations safely and comfortably.
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I hear that, however she already can not keep up with me, I have to go a lot slower for her. That is with me using the Dirigo and her using a rental, and my sons sot. as far as safely, her kayak what ever one she uses would be the limiting factor of where we would go. there are a couple large lakes we could go to that can get some waves epically in areas were boats go. I would say for now, 90% of our time would be on a 600 or so acre lake with flat smooth water and no motor boats allowed.
we would go here some times. Google Maps
and here some times Google Maps
but most of the time the lake we go to is close and small in comparison.
My experience is consistent with rstevens15. When my wife and I first started out kayaking, she was in an Eddyline Sitka and I was in a Wilderness Systems Zephyr. Both fairly comparable kayaks, same length, both in the sea kayak category. But hers was rather large for her, which in the beginning she liked because it was stable and roomy. But as we gained experience, she felt she did not have enough control and that the wind pushed her around a lot. She felt like she was always playing catch up, and I felt like I was always waiting.
About 5 years ago we upgraded to P&H composite kayaks, same model and size. My âengineâ still has more horsepower than hers, but from the beginning of using the same model the difference has been minimal, and she feels like she keeps up well, and we stay together without thinking about it, or her asking me to slow down. Sure I still need to intentionally slow down at times, but the performance is the same, so it is only the bigger engine that we deal with, rather than performance characteristics.
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I expect the largest obstacle in finding the perfect kayaks for your needs is going to be budget. (Like with MOST of us here)
If money was no object getting exactly what you need is not hard to do.
Here are 2 examples. Not the only ones but a good set of specs to try to duplicate as closely as you can.
https://www.rebelkayaks.com/product/mastif/
https://www.rebelkayaks.com/product/illka/
or perhaps
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