Looking for tips to paddle faster

I do apologize if i made somewhat less sense than normal, was still under the effects of anesthesia recovering from surgery so not firing on all cylinders.

but getting back to topic, I can run High Angle for about 3 hours of constant paddling, but then again I’ve trained for it and my shoulders can and do take the stress from it fairly well. beyond that I tend to drop to mid for anything beyond that. on my 9 hour run it was pretty much mid all the way as I knew I was going to be on the water for a good long time.

Normally I would also suggest different paddle sizes. and lengths for whatever style you choose.

Personally I found the Ikleos was potentially too much surface area for me, but it was hard to tell as the buoyant blades gave me a blade bob perpendicular to the stroke.

My Accent Kuiai (my beater paddle.) was around at 650 cmsq but has a brutal swing weight due to the poly pro blades on a carbon shaft.

I found that my best speeds were obtained with the aquabound whiskey (so far) in the 225 cm shaft, though I feel its a might short My catch is just shy of my feet. so I’m getting a 230.

I also feel that my ideal blade area is going to be about 630sq cm or close to it. but no one seems to make a high angle with that surface area so I’m leaving a bit if unused strength on the table.

So for efficiency you also need to match you paddle to your style which can be a royal pain and have you go through alot of options.

Based on your latest video I noted two things.

  1. on your exit you are throwing water. this is lost energy
  2. you are expending more energy on your left side at the catch than your right.

work on getting the same thrust on both sides its easy to catch as you boat tilts to one side more than the other. Other than that your high angle form is near perfect.

At around 1.42 minutes your stroke both sides becomes the same, this just may be an affect of your initial acceleration and you wind up throwing less water into the air.

another point when making your turn practice edging for turning rather than paddling one side, and here it’s ok do do a sweep stroke on the side opposite you want to make the turn on. This will keep your speed up.

and at 3.22 minutes I dont see any real fault per-se other than torso rotation this could be a bit more pronounced, I have nearly fused vertebre so my rotation on the left is about the same as yours but my right side is much more pronounced this will allow you a bit cleaner exit and less wasted energy.

I want to sit down and watch this end to end and take some better detailed notes but it’s already looking better.

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This may be a bit of semantics, and not much more. But just in case it adds any understanding, I’ll bring it up.
Sweep in kayak terminology is a turning stroke. During a sweep stroke, you are angling the blade to allow you to apply pressure to turn to the right or left.
The very fastest double blade paddlers use a high angle stroke, and they do not keep the paddle blade right alongside the paddlecraft. I’d say this gets into ergonomics. With the way the body is able to work best for the purpose of racing with a double bladed paddle, allowing the paddle to slice away from the craft as you move through the stroke has proven beneficial. The wing paddle is designed to take even more advantage of this slicing motion, but the benefits of the ergonomics of this stroke are still beneficial to a non-wing paddle user.
You do not, however, during this stroke, angle the paddle blade to turn the boat. So you do not, simply by not keeping the blade of a high angle stroke right against the side of your kayak, incorporate a sweep as part of your forward stroke. You might be able to do a forward stroke that introduces even less turning force, but you might not find the same capacity for speed.
I’ve not recognized elite level high angle paddlers going so far as stacking their hands outside the gunwale throughout their stroke with a double blade paddle. It is done differently than single blade paddling.
It’s hard to make much in the way of meaningful conclusions about individual experiences with non-competitive strokes. But in the elite competition arena, strength, hard work, and technique come together to show us what is actually what in terms of paddling fast. If a competitor can do something that improves their time over an entire race by a single second, they do it. 95% of the “what works best for me” stuff gets thrown out the window or they don’t make it there. You simply have to do the thing that allows the human body to move you the fastest.
Now you’re talking going fast but not necessarily trying to become the fastest that you could potentially become. I still tend to think that anytime you’re legitimately trying to push your personal speed wall above say 4 -5 knots, there’s probably less gray area than most folks believe to be true in terms of technique that will allow a person to go faster. I’d put you in that area where you should be examining and working on what would be your elite paddling stroke, seeing what you can achieve with it, and then water it down for comfortable fast paddling as works for you. I wouldn’t chase anyone else"s watered down technique as a substitute, because I think there’s a solid chance it would serve to hold you back at this level. If you then come out of it using your double blade like a single blade, and you actually can’t do better just setting aside the double blade and using a single blade instead, then I’ll like that for you, and you only.
Keep up the good work! Maybe we can all take a forward stroke class from you one day.

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If you go faster but also get tired sooner, the benefit depends on the distance you paddle.

Another fun video - This one was in tough 24mph wind with peak ebb tide.

The water current flowing in the opposite direction here made me look like I"m going faster then I am. I was somewhere around 5mph this day. The whole trip average was 4.6mph but thats distorted because I stopped often on this day to chat with the rowers on the water. The rowing team was out this morning also so when they’re around, I tend to be faster also because I try to race them each and every time!!

Thanks everyone for your inputs. Its a lot to absorb.

I do have another question. Notice how many head is turning left and right constantly including looking down at the waters. Does any of this matter? I am only looking down at the waters to analyze my stroke & techniques. I can certainly do away of looking down at the waters. But should I be trying to keep my head center or maybe just slight turns? I thought the idea of turn my head is to help with the body rotation. That’s what I was taught in in person paddling technique class to look left and right all day long. That class though wasn’t focusing on speed, but it was focusing on efficient and proper paddling techniques.

I have learned not to look down but up.
This may also reduce your need for course corrections and thus improve efficiency.

Also your looking at your stroke and such won’t help much, I think.
Paddling with your eyes closed once in a while is much more helpfull in my experience to get a feel for the best ‘resistance’ from your strokes to go forward.

Yes - No - Depends.

I hate questions like this.

Does it matter, yes for perfecting your technique. you can watch what you are doing get the right technique and then duplicate until it becomes muscle memory., it’s about 10,000 repetitions or so. Does it affect your speed, possibly what it does affect is your course.

For maintaining your course “look where you want to go” applies pretty much for everything Kayaking, canoeing, driving etc… Subconsciously looking left or right is going to make you head in that direction. but this is perhaps the later lesson after you perfect your stroke.

if you must look away from where you are going look down from your direction directly to the boat’s bow. but again after you perfect your stroke.

looking at the video, your left side catch and exit are pretty good. but right side your rotation on your torso is less that left. are you weaker on your right? I note this in your forward view video I can see you tilting your boat on the left side when you apply thrust, but not your right. this in effect is an paddle stroke edge turn. if you find your self having to apply a corrective stroke occasionally to overcome this this is probably why. and this seems to be due to unequal torso rotation L/R.

Your exit now seems much cleaner so there is improvement between the videos. Now get out there and do it 10,000 more times. :slight_smile:

I’m right handed so that makes sense that when my left hand is driving the paddle, it does not have as much strength. My arms/hands are not of equal strength. I lift weights as well and there is a big gap between the right and left arm. I can bench 45lbs dumbells comfortably with my right arm but barely able to get the dumbell up with my left hand. I’ll see if I can build more strengths to make it stronger than my right hand. That’s going to take time. Been doing weights a lot too in the past 1 year. I also bike a lot also to help with the endurance training. I ride regularly 30 to 40 miles at 17 to 20mph pace on my bike for 2 hours on a regular basis.

I’m afraid I have developed muscle memory to look down. I tried looking up today and oh boy, I was having a lot of problems with driving my paddle forward. It felt very uncomfortable to look forward so I switch back to looking down at the waters. I think I have screwed myself in this area of looking down at the waters too often to make sure my blade is in and out of the water at the right timing.

This is not uncommon, also because it influences your spine and with that your body rotation.
So just relax and don’t overdo it.
Try to do it a little bit for a few minutes every hour of your training session.
It will probably improve with time.

You mentioned disproportionate arm strength which indicates that you’re not relying on torso rotation. You also mentioned that your paddle is slightly longer than it needs to be for high angle. One option is to paddle a lower angle. Many members actually prefer the high angle paddle for paddling both high and low angle. I tried a 230 cm Ikelos (107 sq in blades) for low angle, but the 230 cm length was shorter than I was accustomed to for my low angle approach. One effective tip for reducing the rate of yaw associated with the low angle technique was mentioned above. That is to model the wing paddle stroke. Start with your catch close to the boat and when your paddle arc approaches 90°, depart on a tangent so it shifts outward about 30° from the boat (as pointed out above, continuing the arc past 90° is a sweep stroke designed to turn the boat).

Another tip to managing a straight track is to increase cadence, because an alternate stroke on the opposite side is the best way to reverse the yaw. Lowering the paddle angle also improves the efficiency of torso rotation, and it reduces the transition lag between the exit and the catch, as compared to high angle. Given you current speeds and cadence of about 55 spm, you should have no problem managing a low angle stroke of about 60 to 65 spm.

@Craig_S pointed out that looking straight ahead could improve tracking. There isn’t anything wrong with swinging your head, but your eyes are not fixed, and they’re capable of a wide range of periferal vision. Your course track appears erradic, but it’s hard to figure out the reason. My question is whether it happens each time you take an extended break so the boat drifts, or it could be due to the influence of current, wind, waves or tides. Analysing the cause and solving the deviation is up to you. If you’re serious about monitoring progress and improving stroke efficiency, you can’t assess improvement using the provide stats. An outsider has no way of knowing whether you peaks and valleys occurred when you were trying to catch a rowing teams or whether you were on an extended rest breaks at another point

By indicating an ebb tide, it shows the tide was slack (flow is slack for about 30 minutes before and after the ebb/flood). Current fow is most influential at the choke point where water flows in and out of the basin. There is a basin similar to yours near were I paddle, where current speeds can reach as high as 3 to 5 mph during the mid tide cycle, so I’m curious whether that is where you’re riding 9 mph peaks.

Your speeds are very good, especially considering the extremes range of over two mph between high and low speed spikes. Although your average speeds are very good, it’s won’t be practical to compare trip speeds or improvement in your technique until you better manage consistency.

Although your speed graph shows higher average speed than my 13 year old grandaughter, her graph shows similar extreme spikes. I’m not sure what causes your extreme swings, but her fluctuations are from going anaerobic then pausing for a short recovery.



Since your speeds are commendable, there’s nothing wrong with the fluctuations, but you could improve efficiency with more consistent power output.

Current where I am does not exceed 1.7knot and thats only by the inlet area to get out of the harbor into a large Long Island Sound. That 1.7knot is at the peak flood (20mins before the tide changes).

The Sound on a windless day like the 4.8mph trip I posted is very calm. That was a slack tide day where I was not really getting any current help or against.

Here’s a different trip on June 16th that I stayed inside the harbor. I am a little confused by Strava. The trip average shows 4.4mph in 10miles but then in the Analysis section, it shows 5.7mph average. For this trip today on June 16th, I did take some full stop breaks to adjust the camera and more or less to re-adjust myself. And at one part for 10mins, I was in 1ft (maybe less) of waters so I had to do a low angle sweep to get out of that area.


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Here are some fun videos:

Me racing with novice rowers (I actually kept up nicely). They were really beginners at that time. These same kids now leave me in the dust.

Me in a dragon boat. Camera is on my head. We actually won the village race but not a big deal since our competitors were college professors and other old folks. Our dragon boat team consisted of kids from the rowing team. There were a few kids that were 12 years old plus the parents (me). We also had two national winners rowing coaches on the dragon boat.

Our first time on a dragon boat ever the day before the event

The rowers I race with. achem, well in my head i’m racing them. They’re laughing at this kayaker middle age man just popping up here and there with a camera.

The rowing team just took 9th place in the national level championship this past week. First place in the U16 4X W FB category but 9th overall.

My goal in paddling isn’t about speed as much as a ficus on efficiency and physical conditioning. Training for competition is entirely different. At the end of a training session or a race, your energy should be completely spent, and that is the only way to know you put out as close to 100% as possible.

My numbers might be wrong, but I found through experimentation that over an 8.5 mile course, the best option is to remain aerobic through most of the course.

There is a certain built in error when using a GPS. Accuracy improves with the number of satellites used to fix your location, but that takes longer to calculate. There’s a tradeoff between fixing your location and calculating duration of the sample. In other words, a calculation based on 1/10th of a second is less accurate, but it gets a better snapshot of the speed. On the other hand, a 1 second sample is more accurate, but it essentially can only get an average of the speed over a second, so it misses the high and low during the sampling interval. Regardless of how the GPS samples the trip, the average speed is calculated using the distance between points and how long it takes to cover that distances. My deck mounted Gamin GPS is set at one sampling rate and the GeoTrack app is set to another rate. Additionally, I have the moving speed set to another rate, with one recording any movement, and the other device sensing only movement that is faster than one mph. Consequently, when I stop for a water break, one device reads as “Moving Time”, while the other device will show “Stop Time”. When I compare data at the end of a trip, the difference is under .1 mph between them.

I cross checked the distance/time by calculating distance using a nautical chart and the started/end time. Using the set straight line distance of 8.5 miles, I constructed a chart based on time to finish 8.5 miles over every minute from 135 minutes down to 100 minutes. I also have a chart for 8.36 miles and 8.6 miles. The difference if I recall is within around only .1 mph. My point is that the average speed calculations and GPS error rate is well within a tolerable range.

It’s important to realize that you have a greater impact on accuracy by paddling an inconsistent track. You also skew the moving time average sognificantly, based on how often you stop paddling but continue to glide until your GPS senses that your progress is sensed as “Stop Time”. The best way to get more consistent GPS results is to paddle more consistently.

When I compare boats or paddles, I make a stop ever 2.1 miles of 30 second duration for water That way, each trip has the same delay at the same point which divides my course into four equal legs. It helps that the tide datum point is at the peninsula that serves as the mid point with 2 legs on each side of the penninsula. That gives me two legs into conditions and two legs with conditions.

By using different approaches over the same course, I found that setting your metabolism to use energy aerobically is the best option. Based on your charts and paddling technique, I’m cetain you could add another .5 mph to your average speeds, if you balance your energy output.

I divided your chart into segments to highlight features that I noticed:

The gray line appears to be your GPS calculated average speed. That reflects the limit of your physical ability for that boat using current paddling technique. However, you still have room to tweek you output and increase efficiency. This may seem counter intuitive, but segment 1 shows you are exceeding the average speed in the first 3 miles. Then your average speed became inconsistent for 3/4 mile, and you returned to consistent speeds for a mile, before it again became inconsistent. Without understanding the conditions, I believe you were using glycogen in your arm and shoulder muscle groups for power, and you maintained that output for 3 full miles, before it appears that you started going in and out of anerobic output. Then you appeared to recovered and resumed consistent speed for a mile. Notice the change at the beginning of segment 4. Your power builds slightly in the first line, then the next two inclined lines show a steeper output and sharper drops. As you enter segment 5, that is where you show inconsistent power (unless you actually encountered harsher conditions). To fully understand the charts, consider how you felt in segment 2, 4, and 5. Why did you paddle/stop, paddle/stop? Were you facing harsher conditions or did you feel you were running out of energy. In segment 4, your speeds became more eradict. Then by segment 5, your ability to control speed was compromised.

You may want to try a different strategy. Since you have a limited supply of glycogen stored in your muscle groups, you can modify your approach without paddling harder. Noticing that your speeds were abive the grey line for the first three miles, below for for 3/4 mile, then above for a mile, then above and below for the last segment.

Since it takes about 20 to 30 minutes to kick start the aerobic process, try paddling at around 4.6 mph for the first two miles. That’s where you body clicks into aerobic mode. Hopefully, after 20 to 30 minutes, you’ll feel a surge of energy that’ll increase your speed by .2 to .4 mph. Keep that level of effort and avoid the urge to hit max spikes. Your cruising speed is easy 4.8 mph. Your goal should be managing 4.8 mph with a solid flat line on the graph through the duration of the trip. The faster your speed, the greater the resistance as you approach hull speed. Avoid speed spikes for two reasons: primarily, higher speed increases energy needs exponentiall, and higher speeds push your energy use into anerobic, which depletes oxygen and builds carbon dioxide in your blood stream.

Also consider lowering you paddling angle to reduce the transition distance between the exit and the catch. If your paddle feels too long for high angle (your blade for the next power cycle looks like it’s about 5 to 6 feet in the air away from the catch. A lower angle will put the blade closer to the water following the exit. The longer your paddle stays in the water, the more control you’ll have. Low angle also makes it easier for core rotation. The paddler’s box reduces stress on the shoulders, and a wider grip allows you to open your chest to favolitate breathing and remain in an aerobic phase. Your chart appears to show that you still had anerobic energy left at the end, because there are higher spikes than drops above the gray average speed line.

I may be wrong, but that is how I interpret your charts. If I’m correct in how I’m reading your charts, you are a stronger paddler than me. The recommendations I offered is how I improved my paddling average speeds without increasing power. Match you power to the paddle. If you feel cavitation, slippage, bubbles, oscillation or flutter in the paddle, you’re simply overpowering the paddle. Match your stroke to be only slightly faster than the speed of the boat. The paddle locks in the water, and the boat moves.

Here is an example of what I found by pushing .5 mph over my avg speed.



Notice how the speed spikes in the last segment, highlightrd by the yellow underlined. It shows that I had excess untapped anerobic power remaining in my arms, shoulders and back

By comparing each 2.1 mile segment quarter, I know that section 2 and 4 are essentially similar conditions. Visually, i can tell that a measurable amount of energy remained.

@Jyak in high angle you use both arm strength and torso rotation. So it does matter. I suffer from the same issue my left side is about 75% the strength of my right.

Has nothing to do with the speed, does affect endurance, same would apply for a blade with a high swing weight it just winds up being tiring over the long haul.

@KayakJourney looking at your chart:

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It looks at about mile 3 you are getting fatigued, as your speed is very consistent up to that point and then you begin to fluctuate wildly. weer you getting fatigued at that point and then pushing through? or were there following waves that after mile 3 you were inadvertently surfing them. from your video up to about 59 second mark, it looks like occasionally you got on the surf.

There is still something weird in your stroke, but I can’t put my finger on it that is affecting efficiency. It may just be the camera angle.

From what ive seen you appear to be a stronger paddler than I am well physically stronger but not where it counts in the shoulders. You need some specific exercises to target your shoulders and chest. This will help you high angle.

I understand and don’t disagree, especially given your speeds. However, you have a much more evolved high amgle technique and have mastered the feathered blades, which improves your exit (many paddlers don’t actually understand the reason for feathering). For that and other reasons, I would never suggest you switch to low angle. I don’t think @KayakJourney is taking full advantage of torso rotation.

Every paddler has a preference and Kayakjourey seems to prefer a moderate high angle technique. However, he y suggestion is based on what I learned and how I adapted after my shoulder injury.

His comment that the paddle length feels a bit long prompted me to suggest a lower angle. It’s just an option. I had the fortunate opportunity to try your Ikelos 230 cm paddle. Although it turn out to be too short, it prompted me to try the 260 cm length in a Kalliste. My experiment was favorable, but two trips aren’t enough to make recommendations for other paddlers. To summarize, the 240 and 250 cm length seem to give similar results, while the 260 cm gave me noticably more consistent speeds with a 64 to 68 spm cadence compared to 72 to 80 spm with either the 240 or 250 cm. That doesn’t mean that other paddlers should buy longer paddles. Just as with the high angle technique, a longer paddle requires different physiology, greater torso rotation, a focus on form, and the paddle speed has to creep up slowly to match the boat speed or the paddle will just cut water rather than offer resistance.

The main advantage of low angle is that it significantly reduces the dead zone where power transitions from the exit to the catch. The greatest issue of excessive yaw is easy to resolve, by modifying the stroke to avoid turning it into a sweep and by matching the paddle length and blade area to a manageable high cadence. A higher cadence is beneficial because the faster alternate stroke cuts the yaw rate.

I agree that he is a very strong paddler. Rather than subject the open forum to my excesses, I offered a direct message comparison between his charts and mine, because I had similar patterns that I corrected, after I noticed similar patterns in your charts that you correlated to heart rate output. Even though we have entirely different paddle technique, I managed to increase my speed by .5 mph after our paddling session. While you seem to thrive at the threshold between aerobic/anerobic, I have to stay under the aerobic threshold.

I noticed the same points as you.

Segment 1 and 3 are above the trip average speed. Although I believe you don’t warm up, I approach each trip by remaining about .2 mph under my target avg for the first 20 minutes. That’s just how I approach it from a non-competitive style. The speed fluctuations could be due to encountering adverse conditions, but by following the track, it’s hard to visualize the conditions creating such disruptions in his consistency. Segment 1 and 3 are virtually identical, excelt for the mild 3/4 mile disturbance in segment 2, before the consistency resumes for a mile in segment 3. The speed swings start again in segment 4, as the speed steadily increases before a few sharp drops offs highlighted by the green lines. Then segment 5 get wider swings, but for the most part it remains above average. That tells me he still has anerobic energy remaining. I find that if I push beyond my aerobic limit, I get similar fluctuations. When I stay closer to the anticipated average speed for the trip, I’m able to hit higher average speeds.

Regarding the stroke, I see it as a mix of a high, low angle technique. The stroke could be executed by dropping the shaft until it’s brushing the deck. Swinging the paddle that high means lifting the arms and paddle 18 inches higher than necessary, which also adds unnecessarily to the transition between power strokes.

Of course that doesn’t mean he has to adapt the advice to his paddling style.

I don’t use my arms and shoulders other than the isometric tension necessary to lock my arms in the paddler’s box. Those muscle groups are reserved for the last two miles where I pour on the power to take advantage of the stored energy that wis otherwised reserved for potential emergency. Because my test course is divided into four nearly equal 2-mile segments, that last burst tells me how efficiently I was able to preserve my stored anerobic muscle energy.








4.4mph trip average / 5.9mph avg (under analysis tab)

@Jyak - I tried what you recommended slowing down at the start. It felt good all the way up to the midpoint that I felt like I was just gliding along. I did have some current help at the start because of the ebb tide.

At midpoint, as soon as I turned around, I didn’t think my energy was drained. I drank a whole bottle of water and started moving within 2 mins. And bam, it felt like I was hitting a wall and barely moving. Not sure why. I did have the current against me on the way back but its still somewhere around past mid tie of the ebb so current was likely around 0.2knots to 0.3 knots against me. 6mph wind was negligible for this trip.

At the last 2 miles back inside the harbor, I started my sprint. At the 7.5 mile point on the chart, that’s right inside the inlet where I have 1knots of current against me and the gigantic 300ft ferry was coming out also creating gigantic wakes that I had to turn into avoid getting slam by it. By the end of the ride, I was very exhausted. In the last 100 yard, I was out of breath and was probably rotating without knowing what I was doing anymore.

And oh, it was pouring in the first 22 mins of the trip. The rain was very much welcomed because it was very foggy and the rain washed it all away. Trip time started at 6:36am for reference to the time noted in the photos to give an idea where I am in reference to the current flow speed & directions.

Thanks everyone for detailed inputs. I’m taking it in as best as I can and making small adjustments. I am sticking to the “true high angle” form for now to see if that will build up my muscle further and will know if it makes a difference or not in a month or two as I keep to it. If no speed increase, I would prefer to switch back to my mid angle with a slight sweep to the side as that feels more natural. That could be because of the paddle length. I don’t want to spend $400 to get another shorter paddle but I may have to.

What paddle are you using

Zegul Greenland GT (Touring) sea kayak and Werner Ikelos 210cm.

I updated my post above to note my start time is 6:36am so the photos showing the time makes sense to where I am. Total trip time was 2hours so my midpoint was at 58mins.