That Dagger looks like a Meridian? If so wasn’t it based on the Explorer? Flat Pick told me that the Zephyr was based on the Meridian.
Just spoke with him on phone. Here is what he said.
Boat is a 1995 Meridian SK prototype. It does NOT have a skeg.
He learned this by calling the manufacturer and based on the details he provided they said it was a prototype they created prior to mass producing the Meridian SK.
He said boat is in great condition. He is 5’10 and 210 lb. he said the boat is too small for him and thought it might fit me decently.
He is also selling this paddle:
He said he’d sell it to me for $200 if I buy the boat too.
Thoughts?
You will want a skeg at some point as you grow paddling in conditions.
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Yeah tbh I’m not super feeling the Dagger.
I’m almost leaning back to canoe at this point so I can get some camping in with my GF. I really want to get on Rainy Lake/BWCA.
Seems like a good deal. Maybe I can get a yak later in the season when prices drop. I heard these boats are strong, stable, and lighter than aluminum. Not super fast, but a good novice boat.
A few brief comments.
I’n surprised at the many people that say certain boats are too big for you. I’m 5’5" and 155 lbs and have been paddling an 18’ x 21" kayak for many years with no problem. I’m into distance paddling and if I were somehow to break the boat I have I would look for something about the same length.
Rudder or skeg in a kayak. It’s a matter of personal choice but be aware that with a skeg you lose a fair amount of storage space if you are considering camping. Whatever you choose, if you are planning on paddling open water, I would want one or the other. You don’t have to deploy either, but with a crosswind or current you will be glad to have the option. Most kayaks come with one or the other, with some you have a choice.
Canoe vs kayak. You’ve already gotten a lot of good advice on this. A canoe generally holds more gear and is easier to portage. You have easier access to your gear. It also easier to get into and out of where there are no beach-like landings. Larger canoes are more versatile when it comes to carrying a second person or pets. However an undecked canoe or a lightly loaded one is often less desirable for open water on a windy day or in rough conditions. Quite a few of my friends that camp in the Adirondacks or the Boundary Waters own both and make a choice depending on their plans.
It might not be the perfect boat for you right now but I would love to own it.
I have no experience with the that brand or model of paddle.
That’s a good deal on the carbon paddle – half the new price of it – and it is adjustable in length. A good design for long distance touring with that long slender blade and a well regarded maker. But if you don’t want that guy’s boat, not an option. Though if he would take $220 for just the paddle, you might want to consider it. I would buy that paddle in a heartbeat.
I am one who will disagree on the “necessity” of a skeg (or rudder). I have owned kayaks with both and rarely used those features, eventually selling off those that had them. All the boats I have now don’t have them (though one of my folding kayaks has a strap on small skeg that helps it track in windy conditions). Then again, all my boats are low-decked Greenland style that are not as prone to wind-cocking as taller decked models, so take my bias with a grain of salt.
One problem with your searching now is that you are focusing on the Boundary Waters tripping, which is something for which a skeg or rudder would be more of a hindrance than help. It’s just my opinion, but restricting yourself to looking at boats with ONLY a skeg when you really don’t know yet if you would be doing a lot of paddling where one would be needed, seems to be a hang up right now and maybe not a practical one.
The canoe (or one like it) looks like your best option in the short term. I have both kayaks and a canoe, as do many people who paddle different kinds of waters. There is no “one size fits all” in paddling.
Size is more than length… I commented earlier that my 17’ Current Designs Solstice GTS fits me just right, whereas my 17’ Perception Eclipse is way too big… It’s not the length of the boat, it’s the height of the deck and where the knee bolsters are positioned. The whole cockpit is just laid out for someone larger than me. I feel like I’m sitting in a bathtub in the Perception.
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Thanks for this. Regarding the paddle, I believe ad says it is 240cm. Is that a good size for what I’m looking to do and for me personally? Remember I’m 5’7 and he is 5’10”. I may just buy the paddle (if appropriate size) so that it is one less thing to worry about later.
What are your thoughts on the Dagger he is selling?
As you said, maybe it is best I just get a canoe for now. It is cheaper, allows me to get out on the water with GF and friends, and allows me to camp easily. Summer is short in MN so if I can get something to get me through the season - awesome.
I’d say whatever I buy it will mostly be used in VNP for day trips and leisure and camping. I will travel with it occasionally to the BWCA, etc.
I don’t know about the Dagger or canoes, but I’m pretty sure that paddle is going to be a good bit too long for you. I’d guess with a well-fitting sea kayak you’d need maybe 215 or 210 cm.
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MR Explorers are great wilderness trucks. That one is Royalex so will be a bit heavy but will take you most anywhere you want to go. It might need some skid plates on the stems. There are several threads on this site with ideas (and opinions).
Thank you! I was assuming it was royalex, but wasn’t positive.
Royalex is still lighter than aluminum though right? I’ve read royalex is strong, lighter and performs better than most aluminum boats.
I originally looked at aluminum canoes, but became dissuaded after reading aluminum’s only real advantage is that they can take a beating. Other than that they are clunky, loud, heavy, and slow.
In my opinion a 240 cm paddle is really long and will limit your options for development.
Like I said before I wish I could get my hands on that Meridian. Without a skeg it will probably turn into the wind but I know one guy who had the skeg removed on his Meridian and several people who had them removed on their NDK boats.
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Why do you like that Meridian so much?
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According to the manufacturer’s website, all their paddles can be adjusted to various sizes but maybe that one is an earlier or later version. 240 is awfully long for a paddle accept for a very tall person in a pretty wide kayak, neither of which is your case. If he says it is 240 fixed length, that is not what you would want.
I don’t have any experience with or opinion on the Meridian. I had a Dagger Magellan for a while, which was not fast but definitely big enough for hauling camping gear and pretty much indestructible. But it was beastly heavy, which is mainly why I sold it.
Another thought on the canoe: living where you do it would probably not be all that hard to sell it if you decide you want to move on to a kayak, especially in the Fall (when hunting season starts). Many of us cycle through a number of boats before we hit on the ones we want to keep for a while. You don’t know what you really want from a boat until you’ve paddled for a while.
I’m not sure if Royalex is much (if any) lighter than a similar sized aluminum canoe although that can vary with the gauge of the Aluminum used. My Prospecter 16’ in R-Lite weighs mid-60s (I haven’t checked in a while). The Grummans were pretty good boats - carried tons of gear for many miles over the years. Downsides - noisy when you hit something, sticks to rather than slides off or rocks, transmits heat & cold easily, somewhat restricted in shapes due (perhaps) to tooling costs. It was somewhat less expensive (I think) to create tooling for Royalex to create a range of shapes. The lines are not as sharp and as complex as can be done in composite construction. The MR Explorer is a classic. I have run bow in one in class III+ like the Lower Yough many times.
The Meridian is the type of boat that I like. I had a Zephyr 155 that I loved. The Zephyr designer told me that it was based on the Meridians hull shape. I found the Z was very efficient at touring speed, accelerated quickly making the most of every wave. The initial stability was comfy and the secondary stability was rock solid. It edged very well. My friend who owned a Meridian described it the same way.
I believe that the Meridian, even without a skeg, is great versatile boat.
That one I linked must have sold. I found this up by Duluth MN:
I might check it out if I go north and assuming I see no major issues - just buy it. Very low cost of entry and it has the skid protectors on already.
Discos were decent if heavy canoes. Worth checking out.
Agree with the several above, 240 cm is too long. Doggy suggested 210 or 215 which sounds about right. I’m 6’1’" and should use a 215 however I prefer a shorter paddle so use a 210 as a high angle paddle (shift to a GP when relaxed low angle paddling). Either length should be good for you at this stage of your paddling. In 2 - 5 years you will probably learn that one length is great and the other stinks in comparison, but you won’t be able to accurately determine that until you have paddled a few hundred miles including trying different paddles…
As for the Dagger Meridian vs NDK Explorer, what type waters will you paddle mostly? If interior waters/streams protected from wind and waves = Meridian. If open bays with potential for wind and waves = Explorer (with the option to use the skeg) Both are good kayaks which you can paddle for many years.
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