Lots of trees down way up here in central NC. This is the most dramatic damage I’ve seen locally.
Typical for pine trees
We got all prepared for Florence and it was a non-event. We thought nothing about Michael and it turned out to be a pretty big thing.
I learned in “Andrew” 1992 that trees are not our friends especially when they take out the power.
Bushes are our friends…
My parents and my sister live in Callaway which is on the east side of Panama City and west side of Tyndall AFB. They stayed despite my request the day prior that they leave since my 84 poor health mom requires power for insulin cooling, air conditioning, and oxygen generation. But, they stayed. Their house sustained minor damage with some roofing tiles off, porch awning gone, some siding removed, and numerous trees down. My sister lived directly next to them and her garage wall, garage door, roof are gone. Most of the roof on the rest of the house is gone. A shed out back is gone. The inside of the house is strewn with debris and water. Pretty spectacular damage. A couple houses down there are some homes completely obliterated. After the winds died down, it didn’t take them long to realize the lack of communication ability, water and power is no way to go through life and they packed up and left.
Tree: Glad they are OK. I hope with the extensive coverage that next time people will be more likely to evac.
For the first time in my life I swallowed my macho and ran before “Irma”. I would have survived but the surge would have been terrifying and by running at least my car was saved.
Beach front will be less popular for awhile, but memories are short.
They may have to rebuild to new stronger codes which will be more $$$$ plus ins. co.
I see mostly wood construction in Mexico Beach, down here new construction is concrete plus elevated.
@grayhawk said:
They may have to rebuild to new stronger codes which will be more $$$$ plus ins. co.
I see mostly wood construction in Mexico Beach, down here new construction is concrete plus elevated.
Most of the damage they are showing is older construction. That area on the beach that is flattened was old 50 and 60s construction. Some were vacation homes. Some were residences. Some of the “stilt” houses blew off the pilings. Go to WindMark on the sat pictures. You will notice those houses are pretty much intact. They were built , phase I, on concrete pilings and a concrete reinforced concrete platform on top of the pilings. They also were 140 mph code compliant. (ie 2006) standards.
Yes it will cost more……….but maybe not that much more considering. Many people in Panama City and the Mexico beach were unable to get private insurance and had to get the state sponsored insurance…forgot name. Typically house insurance over there had high Hurricane deductibles. My house (sold) In Overstreet had a $10,000 deductible. It is still there.
There was also a lot of unreinforced masonry construction.
Sounds familiar as many people in my area went uninsured because of the cost and high deductibles. I needed flood wind and homeowners and every year it covered less. Considering the value the land is about 80% of the total property sometimes it just don’t compute.
Fortunately I was able replace my abode with an RV which I’m beginning to love as life is simpler and insurance is so much cheaper.
One of the things that the drone videos seem to indicate is also whether roofs were tied down extra well to the sidewalls, or were the usual older construction. But the significant effects of of the storm surge, which is harder to construct around, may be more of an impact on decisions about whether to rebuild.
Most houses use “envelope” hurricane wind protection. H- clips, straps, rods to the foundation, truss ties, etc help keep the structure together, but once the envelope fails all bets are off. Window breeches, door opening, big holes in walls allow wind to pressurize the interior and put lift on the roof. It puts great stress on the quality of the roof fasteners and installation.
Looking at the NOAA images, Cape San Blas which is a very exposed peninsula with numerous beach homes does not show much damage. Hard to tell exact damage with the pictures but there just isn’t the level of debris fields seen in Mexico Beach or Panama City. Must be built to better codes.
STATE-SPONSORED INSURANCE
Many people in Panama City and the Mexico beach were unable to get private insurance and had to get the state sponsored insurance…forgot name.`
It was the Florida-assembled insurance pool for high-risk areas around Florida, and was called “Citizens”. After years of collecting premiums -and profits -from anyone in the hurricane belt of the state who mortgaged their homes for purchase, and everyone else who felt it was prudent to have windstorm coverage (so-called “hurricane insurance” didn’t, and to my knowledge, still doesn’t, cover flooding damage), during the enormous residential growth in Florida from the 1960s on, with not much payout, most of the major insurance providers ceased writing or renewing windstorm policies after Andrew in 1992, regardless of a given homeowners home construction or storm experience or precise location. Being good businesses, they took the money and ran.
Because we live in an erroneously-deemed more dangerous flood zone in a section of an area of Miami -ironically one of the more toney neighborhoods, Coconut Grove (tho’ our most modest abode is certainly the exception to the general rule), we were lumped as more vulnerable and tossed into the Citizens pool. In actuality, we are in some of the higher land in Miami-Dade, but the lines were drawn to keep things simple, and State Farm bid us adieu and we had to get coverage with Citizens.
Since Andrew, and Katrina and Rita and Wilma, reevaluation(s) of flood zones have resulted in more simplification of flood and evacuation zones, for ease of emergency management officials, and over-simplifying homeowners ability to locate their property in or out of evacuation zones. Probably also reduces institutional liability; Miami is home to thousands of attorneys…
We have now been laughably placed in the highest-risk, first to be called upon, evacuation zone. When they revised the zones, they expanded them. Our property, about a half mile inland, at an elevation of 10-12 feet, is located behind the coastal ridge (about 13-14 feet) and is now in a large grid. We are lumped together with shoreline properties on Biscayne Bay with an elevation of 2-3 feet, and far more wind exposure as well. Because those properties are properly assessed the highest risk, they should evacuate! Those places had 3-4’ of seawater in their homes after Irma, and we were far from the storm center some 100 miles southwest of us, about 20-25 miles north of Key West.
We were “fine”. They -the Bayside homes, in our same zone -were not. We were all designated as equally vulnerable because we were all placed in the same zone.
But we were assuredly NOT in thr same boat. They were wrecked and had to renovate if not rebuild. Once the power came back and we cleaned up the yard, WE were good to go and
PADDLE ON!
Frank in Miami
Here’s one home standing unscathed after Michael. Excellent engineering and construction for those who can afford it. Nice of the owners to offer the place to FEMA for temporary use.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/14/us/hurricane-michael-florida-mexico-beach-house.html
@TreeA10 said:
Looking at the NOAA images, Cape San Blas which is a very exposed peninsula with numerous beach homes does not show much damage. Hard to tell exact damage with the pictures but there just isn’t the level of debris fields seen in Mexico Beach or Panama City. Must be built to better codes.
there was a significant elevation change. There is a high side and a low side to the Cape. Oceanside homes ised to be further from the water
The Cape has been narrowed and part now islands
We went there last year. There were signs that said " beach for one beach for none"
Nature fixed that. No beach
I saw an interview with the guy that built the “Sand Palace” in Mexico Beach a home almost untouched in the storm. He said they researched and overbuilt the codes and closely monitored the construction which increased costs 20 to 30%. He said engineers are now studying the home.
As Frank says, the flood zone maps themselves are an issue. It impacts how good the decisions are when planners try to analyze for solutions. One problem is that the federal agency that has to redraw the maps to account for the increase in storm surges going placed heretofore unexpected - like Hackensack in NJ - is understaffed to do the job well. They are way behind.
As an example, my house has been “in or near” a high risk zone for several years now if I look at the official web site. The reason is that the I am the first maybe the second house that is in Zone B rather than Zone A of the flood map from a big one in 1865. For the uninitiated, Zone A is the only one that gives underwriters hives.
Since 1865 there have been major dams built on the Mohawk and the Hudson rivers upstream of me, and an integrated authority established to monitor and manage water levels on the Hudson River. This authority dumped water from the Sacandaga Reservoir a day before Irene hit us. While there was some bodacious flooding in low lying areas and a lot of smaller marinas had their docks (with boats still attached) go over the Troy dam, that one act helped significantly reduce the issue when Irene hit. Unfortunately folks like my farm share place had to go out and literally harvest rocks from their back fields the next spring before they could plant because the Hudson was so high they could not dump the overflow from the reservoir that empties into it, and whole stretches of Vermont farm valleys became lakes. Regardless of reducing impacts along the Hudson, a lot of people had a very hard time and a few of the Erie canal locks on the Mohawk were trashed. But in terms of impact on major population centers and transportation infrastructure, that act by the authority probably avoided some tremendous damage.
That assumes someone is looking at the fully drawn out map, which I go and get a copy of every couple of years from our county planning office in case I have to show it to a bank or someone. With digitized mapping, I can even get one that shows the roof of the houses on my block with the line going thru the property south of me and my house number printed. As long as I can do that, I can keep this place clear of the legal annoyances of being in Zone A.
In fact during Irene we hit the 1865 levels on the Hudson. The water peaked a block and a half away and at least 15 feet lower than my house. So these maps are way off the mark.
But being able to show that I was clear was not enough to stay out of the way of panicked local officials when they decided to issue an evacuation order, because we ran into the issue that Frank talks about. Happily these officials failed to use any useful means of communication and expected the Troy Police to go door to door, who had their hands full with shutting off bridges while propane tanks came down the river and blocking off low lying streets along the river where there was flooding. So nothing actually happened. But I stopped by their offices, my accurate map in hand, and was pointed to a different map that had made straight lines of all the wiggly ones and had put my house and other Zone B neighbors into a big red rectangle saying Zone A.
I would clearly have problems similar to what Frank said were we ever to get a flood that ran some of the 1865 boundaries. But since even Irene didn’t get us there, and maybe because we are officially still being remapped, my more accurate map from the county planning folks has been accepted.
And all of this is just about water. The wind wall is a whole further issue…