Rough water capability…
I agree with Sea Kayaker that rocker really helps in rough water. My Avocet does well in rough water due to its higher degree of rocker (and certainly surfs better). However, in REALLY big water, the Aquanaut is way better. I find that in really big water you don’t really need a lot or rocker, as even the longest, straightest keel boats will frequently have a short waterline as the are lifted up on top of the waves, thus giving them more than adequate maneuverability.
The Aquanaut excels in these conditions largely due to its awesome secondary. It really makes a difference in rough beam seas and clapotis. Also, I find the tracking of the longer and less rockered boats preferable in these conditions. It allows them to punch through the seas and stay on track instead of being tossed about.
Mind you, I am talking about really rough conditions. In moderately rough conditions I like my rockered Avocet, but when it gets really rough the longer, straighter Aquanaut is unquestionably better.
Matt
No offense
But what BIG water have you guys really been in?
Maybe you have… I’m just curious.
Big Water…
Probably not as big as you have....
but rough days on San Francisco Bay, paddling "out the gate" and along the exposed Marin coastline. There can be large/steep incoming swell with short periods (12 foot, 7 seconds), and high winds usually around 20-30 knotts. Combined with fast moving tidal currents, a rocky bottom, and clapotis from the rocky shoreline and boomers can create big confused water that most paddlers would rate as challenging. Also are some good tidal races here as well at Yellow Bluff (adjacent to Alcatraz on the northern side of the GG bridge) that can create large standing waves up to 8 or 10 feet (although I have not paddled it on days where they got that large). Have also paddled a lot of other spots on the CA coast that have rough water, but not quite as big---rock gardening Mendocino and Point Lobos/Big Sur, Santa Cruz, Mavericks, Half Moon Bay,Asilomar Beach,and on days with big swell (15-20 feet)in Monterey.
As well, paddling at the tidal race off Tybee Island, GA can create pretty big water. When paddling near high tide there when there is a spring tide you can get quite large and confused water and large breaking waves far off shore. Here there is a sandbar at the river mouth where the river meets the sea. On a spring tide you will get a tidal race, large breaking waves from various directions, and large clapotis. They do BCU 5 Star training and testing here at the BCU Symposium in October.
This summer I paddled a lot at Tybee Island. I paddled there on one of the biggest tides of the year, right at high tide. The conditions were much larger than I had seen them in the past. I went out in the Avocet and through the "triangle" and felt a little uncomfortable by the lack of secondary offered by the boat so after about an hour I paddled back and got my Aquanaut. This is where I base my comparison between the two. There was a night and day difference. I felt totally comfortable in the Aquanaut. The difference in secondary stability made a huge difference, tracking helped as well. I had SEVERAL large beam waves break on me in deep water that day and felt very secure in the Aquanaut. On a smaller day I would have preferred the Avocet, but here is where I really found the niche for the Aquanaut.
Both places I would consider to be big water......or at least from my persective. Where I live now.....and have yet to find big water and may not find it at all, thus the reason why I may no longer need my Aquanaut.
Matt
Playing In v. Traveling Through?
I wonder if there is a distinction to be made between boats that are good for playing in rough water versus those good for traveling through rough water that explains why some seem to have differing views of what make a good rough water boat.
That qualifies for sure
Never paddled there, other than surfing the coast near San Fran. I guess there’s a break near the bridge somewhere? Scariest water I’ve been in was Cape Chacon Alaska.
soundz big…
to ME!
I sat up on the Cape Disappointment lighthouse a couple days ago and watched 20’ers roll in. YIKES.
Forecast 34’ and 100 mph gusts this week.
where’s my helmet? =:-0)
steve
yep
traveling thru and surviving ‘conditions’ vs ‘playing around’ and enjoying the same conditions can drastically influence which boat works best.
tho, the survival boat can only survive while the play boat can play AND survive.
just 2 centavos.
steve
Well Matched Personalities
I think that sometimes it is a matter of well matched personalities.
Some boats are more demanding of some paddlers' attention to successfully manuever varying conditions.
Tom Bergh switched from paddling his Nordkapp to an Explorer because he didn't want to have to 'think about the boat.' Certainly, Tom is a well skilled paddler who COULD paddle anything in conditions, but finds an Explorer more to his liking (though I did hear of an incident wherein he found an Aquanaut better behaved).
My Romany takes a lot more of my attention in challenging seas and wind than my Aquanaut. If I'm planning on surfing waves into a beach, playing, or doing skills work I prefer the Romany. If I'm in steep beam seas or strongly quartering ones and/or strong winds I want to be in my Aquanaut.
Some would rather be in a Romany no matter what the conditions. Some swear by Nordkapps for anything challenging.
Many boats are capable of handling much. The paddler's skill, experience, and predelictions are often the biggest factor in how a boat does in 'conditions.'
completely agree
with your statement
“Many boats are capable of handling much. The paddler’s skill, experience, and predelictions are often the biggest factor in how a boat does in ‘conditions.’”
and I’d add body type as well. What may work for one may be completely innapropriate for someone with a different weight distribution or paddling style.
I get a chuckle when people say one boat is best for something, as I believe they tend to mean that, for them at their current skill level, they find one boat or the other to work best.
Yep…likewise buy that…
Also depends on a paddlers paddling background. My friend was a slalom paddler for years, and terrific HP kayak surfer. Guy hates tracky boats! I’m guessing a flat water race bred paddler would have different tastes?
Big water…
I live 1/2 block off the Atlantic Ocean so that's where I spend my time, seems like a prety big piece of water to me.
But really, for me the condition of the 'entire immediate enviroment' is much more important than the size of the water/waves, short steep wind driven chop in big fetch is what I would consider 'tough conditions' (greater than 5-7ft ht w/less than 15ft peak durations, combined with the wind generating it - for me gets tough)
One of the worst experiences I had was the misfortune of trying to paddling through an unpredicted squall line that ran through our area a few years back. It came out of nowhere it seemed, caught everyone on the water unaware, lasted less than an hour, intial winds were over 80mph, capsized over 30 boats, 4 drowned, must have been knocked over a dozen times just trying to stay upright, I don't think I would have survived if it had any duration.
conditions…
This OK for the Aquanaut?
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/total_forecast/marine.php?marine=pzz150
Like Flatpick said: Coastal waters forecast for WA state…
COASTAL WATERS FROM CAPE FLATTERY TO JAMES ISLAND OUT 20 NM-
COASTAL WATERS FROM JAMES ISLAND TO POINT GRENVILLE OUT 20 NM-
COASTAL WATERS FROM POINT GRENVILLE TO CAPE SHOALWATER OUT 20 NM-
COASTAL WATERS FROM CAPE FLATTERY TO JAMES ISLAND 20 TO 60 NM-
WATERS FROM JAMES ISLAND TO POINT GRENVILLE 20 TO 60 NM-
COASTAL WATERS FROM POINT GRENVILLE TO CAPE SHOALWATER 20 TO 60 NM-
231 PM PST WED DEC 13 2006
…GALE WARNING NOW IN EFFECT UNTIL 9 PM PST THIS EVENING…
.TONIGHT…W WIND 30 TO 40 KT…BECOMING SW AND EASING TO 20 TO 30 KT THIS EVENING…THEN BECOMING SE 10 TO 15 KT AFTER MIDNIGHT. WIND WAVES 5 TO 8 FT…SUBSIDING TO 1 OR 2 FT. W SWELL 31 FT AT 13 SECONDS… SUBSIDING TO 28 FT AT 14 SECONDS AFTER MIDNIGHT. OCCASIONAL SHOWERS EARLY…THEN SHOWERS LIKELY IN THE EVENING. RAIN AFTER MIDNIGHT.
.THU…SE WIND 20 TO 30 KT RISING TO 30 TO 40 KT EARLY IN THE AFTERNOON… BECOMING S 40 TO 50 KT LATE. WIND WAVES 3 TO 6 FT…BUILDING TO 7 TO 10 FT IN THE AFTERNOON. W SWELL 24 FT AT 14 SECONDS… SUBSIDING TO 18 FT AT 13 SECONDS IN THE AFTERNOON. RAIN.
.THU NIGHT…SW WIND 40 TO 50 KT…BECOMING W IN THE EVENING. WIND WAVES 7 TO 10 FT. W SWELL 19 FT AT 12 SECONDS. RAIN. .FRI…W WIND 25 TO 35 KT…EASING TO 15 TO 25 KT IN THE AFTERNOON. WIND WAVES 4 TO 7 FT…SUBSIDING TO 2 TO 4 FT IN THE AFTERNOON. W SWELL 22 FT.
Surfing…anyone?
Playing Around vs. Paddling Through…
Great point. I generally like to play around in rough water. In most conditions the more manueverable and playful Avocet is better to me for this task than the Aquanaut…except in what I consider really big conditions as I would define them above. Then the Aquanaut is the better boat for either task. Long straight boats can become quite “playful” when the water gets rough enough.
As per the weather forecast above…all I can say is wow! Too big for me…but certainly not for the Aquanaut if paddled by someone more skilled. I think that few would chosse an Avocet over an Aquanaut if they were to paddle in extreme conditions approaching those above.
Matt
oops…
Typo correction here - 25ft duration is what I meant.
And when I say tough for me - I mean, tough for me...
Wave hts above 6ft with 15ft durations (or less) would be a Nor'easter.
I would choose the Avocet!!!
conditions update…38ft. @ 11 secs…
…STORM WARNING NOW IN EFFECT THROUGH LATE TONIGHT…
.TODAY…SE WIND RISING TO 30 TO 40 KT…THEN BECOMING S 45 TO 55 KT IN THE AFTERNOON. COMBINED SEAS 21 FT…BUILDING TO 26 FT AT 13 SECONDS. RAIN DEVELOPING.
.TONIGHT…S WIND 50 TO 60 KT…BECOMING W 40 TO 50 KT. COMBINED SEAS BUILDING TO 38 FT AT 11 SECONDS. RAIN…CHANGING TO SHOWERS.
I’m not sure
that I understand the purpose of your “conditions update” post.
I do not know of anyone who can or would paddle in a 40kt wind intentionally.
I can tell you that when I got caught in a short Squall, although I tried, I never moved in the direction I was paddling (into the wind), I was just hoping to keep upright & not lose the paddle &/or boat.
Those winds were probably close to 50kt sustained with plenty of gusts above 80kt. Thank God it wasn’t for long, I’d say the bulk of it came & went in 20min, but overall the winds didn’t dimish substantialy for another 1/2hr. One of the longest hours of my life I can tell you.
So if you are paddling in what you posted, well then you’re far far better than I will ever be.
For me though, large waves with some duration between are not as much trouble as the frequent standing/chopping/breaking waves associated with wind.
Dont worry…
…just thought it was some significant weather and seas we don’t see that often that would be interesting for folks to consider.
sorry
didn’t mean to seem critical.
I just didn’t understand the post.
I get it now, thanks.
Wow!!!
Those sea conditions are impressive! I would love to be able to see what that looks like…from land.
Matt