ok
so next time someone raises NDK safety and quality issue we should just reply: Keep moving along, nothing to see here. Everything is fine.
who did I respond to again?
The OP? No, you’re right: I responded to you.
I think the OP wrote a very reasoned post and even concluded by stating that this is a common problem with all similar seat bucket attachment points.
What I have a problem with is the hysterical exaggeration that always follows these threads.
Fading mindshare?
Since I have a fondness for the AA and WS AH I am not someone who is adverse to using old boats. If something works well for the intended use, isn’t the fact the design is “dated” irrelevant?
That said it seems to me the QC and “dated” design rep issues with NDK are having an impact on its market/mindshare. A few years ago among “serious” kayakers in NE, NDK boats were “the” boats and that is what everyone was expected to have or obtain once they “saw the light”. Today people are far more likely to be focused of P&H and Tiderace boats as “the” boats to have with a bemused nod to the “old guard” and their NDKs. Maybe just regional, but the change has been evident around here.
Which does make you wonder why there seems to be among some a strong reaction in any discussion about NDK boats. I find the whole pro/anti “the” boat scene rather absurd.
Not to quibble, but …
– Last Updated: Nov-16-10 5:55 PM EST –
QCC has had the 600X available a lot longer than the Explorer LV and it is certainly a boat that can be used for long expedition-like trips. Granted it is shorter (16' 8") and narrower (21") but it can certainly handle conditions and has plenty of room for gear. And, btw, in carbon it weighs only 38 pounds. Fiberglass is 50 pounds (compared to 55 for the LV).
Looking forward…
– Last Updated: Nov-17-10 11:10 AM EST –
Tom had a bow section with him at the Downeast Symposium. This coming season when we are in Friendship we are hoping to make it down to Peaks to see Tom and play with boats. Maybe he will have the latest iteration on hand ;-)
I do imagine if it ever goes into production it will have reinforced fore deck to support rescues... after all Nigel uses his boats hard and expects others to do so as well.
Fit and contact?
My impression has been that the cockpit fit is not quite what smaller paddlers wishing good contact for rough water work and play are often seeking.
I didn’t realize the 600x had been around for over 15 years.
"…more likely to be focused of P&H"
I believe that is because P&H have recruited so many coaches and sponsored paddlers as well as greatly extending their dealer network.
Were Valley to do the same we would be hearing and seeing more about Valley boats. I know a number of coaches currently paddling P&H who were formerly NDK folk. Though they all say P&H boats are good - more than one has noted my Romany with desire when in tidal currents, standing waves, etc… My day at Sullivans Falls at this year’s Downeast Symposium, most of the coaches were in P&H and most of the paddlers were in Valley and NDK. Those of us in Romanys and Pintails had very big grins.
Tiderace is another matter 
Sizing in the 600X
My wife is about average size for women. I put in a thin foam hip pad and it fits her fine. Smaller women should go for the 10X, which is a more recent model.
What "hysterical exaggeration"
Please DO point out where anyone here has exaggerated the problems with NDK boats. Come to think of it, that would be pretty hard to do.
holy crap…
– Last Updated: Nov-17-10 9:35 AM EST –
ahh, the strident echo of a faded conversation lingers.
bryan you are so over the top obnoxious on the entire topic of ndk that it's STILL mind boggling to me...like a misguided ralph nader wannabe on methamphetamine. as hunter thompson recommended, wear golf shoes at all times - you need the extra traction in the middle of a brain melting binge.
enter a freakin' program already before your head pops off. L would miss you. probably.
happy thanksgiving you doom screaming whackadoodle.
I knew…
I should have sent out for more beer…
First year for the 600X?
– Last Updated: Nov-17-10 10:19 AM EST –
Not the 600, which a scan of reviews indicate tend to be happy fits for more like slightly smaller guys than 5'4" 120 lb women. And no keyhole like the NDK boats which starts mattering for stuff like rolling with shorter female-type thighs.
But my memory is that the X series in QCC showed up after the NDK Explorer LV which was out by the mid-nineties, and QCC's own web page says that they didn't start producing boats under anyone's label until 1996. So I am confused about the 600X being out a lot longer than the Explorer LV.
I am not discrediting QCC or the boat, and I well could have made a mistake. But I am not finding anything that seems to show a longer time line for the 600X, or even as long a one. Since my point was about the alternatives that smaller paddlers had available in that time window...
are we there yet?
No
Only 72 replies…
now 73
thanks for making it easy
I’d say your last sentence would be a clue…
"doom screaming whackadoodle"
lol, internetz
I find it interestingly ironic…
…that you accuse me of all manner of excesses in a post that is so over the top outrageous. YOU are obviously the one who’s all worked up over this; I’m just sittin’ here chillin’ and tellin’ it like it is.
Please feel free to point out where I’ve said anything here that wasn’t true.
I think it’s really pretty funny - though more than a bit hypocritical - that the most strident NDK supporters are the ones shouting at the top of their lungs and accusing people like me of being extreme, when all we’re doing is calmly pointing out the obvious facts about the crappy construction of NDK boats and how far behind the rest of the industry NDK is. I realize that you think Nigel Dennis is the “second coming” and you worship the water he paddles on, but that doesn’t excuse shoddy boat construction.
You, my friend, need to get a grip on reality.
It appears that the NDK faithful…
…have no sense of humor whatsoever.
It was a joke Dude, a joke.
You may be right
Playak lists the model year for the lv as 1993 and for the 600x as 2000. QCC has been in business since 1991 but I don’t know anything about the first boats that Winters built.
my QCC 600 experience…
I purchased a QCC 600 in 2000. I do not recollect there being any ‘X’ designation, but I could be wrong. Back then there was just the models 400, 500, 600 and 700. According to both Steve and Phil at QCC the 600 was supposed to be the ‘ideal’ fit for me.
I was 5’9" and about 145 at that time. The cockpit volume of the 600 dwarfed me. I just swam in the kayak. Therefore it was very poor on three out of five of points of contact. Only the balls of my feet were ok and obviously that was due to the adjustable footpegs.
The kayak was not at all to my liking and went back.
Of course ymmv.